vpFREE2 Forums

Winning / Losing

#1

I've been playing VP for about 4 years now. I practice on WP lots and
lots. I've been to LV (many times), Biloxi and the 2 CT casinos.

There's still something I can't seem to get through my thick head. I
know that the pay tables on the front of VP machines tell you about
how loose or tight a machine is regarding winning hands. My
experience, admittedly "anectodal" tells me simply this: at certain
casinos I have a better chance of winning (i.e., getting deal frequent
'good hands" (straights, flushes, full houses, quads, RF's, etc) and
at others I have less of a chance.

This admittedly unscientific observation comes after having spent many
hours planted in front of machines at many casinos. On my most recent
trip to LV, for example, I couldn't win for losing at Fiesta Henderson.
(On the my previous visit to LV, I had the same experience at FH) Yet,
I "knew" that if I went up the road to Sam's Town to a certain bank of
DB machines, I would have a good experience. (Based on my experience
there) And I did, 3 days in a row.

Am I halluncinating here? It sure does seem that in addition to better
vs. worse pay tables some casinos just offer up more frequent winning
hands than others. When I play at the 2 CT casinos, I simply do not
experience the frequency of good hands that is my experience out in LV
(as another example)

I know that casinos that have FP machine are a better place to play
and I try to go to those places. I just keep getting this idea, after
many hours of VP, that some casinos will give a better frequency of
good hands (assuming 'perfect strategy' on my part) than others.

I know I'm setting myself up here. That's OK. For those who might be
inclined to take me to task here, I would ask this question: "Are
there casinos that you play at in which you simply do not win,
irrespective of pay tables?"

#2

Am I halluncinating here? It sure does seem that in addition to

better

vs. worse pay tables some casinos just offer up more frequent

winning

hands than others.

You are NOT hallucinating, but you are probably drawing the wrong
conclusions if you think there is some inherent "tightness" in the
machine independent of the paytable.

Anyone who plays frequently (like myself and many others on this
board), and keeps decent statistics (same group), can quote you both
statistical and anecdotal anomalies on a monthly, quarterly, or
yearly basis. For example, last year I showed better than expected
profits at 4 of the 6 casinos I frequented. The 2 where I lost were,
strangely enough, the casinos where I had the most play, and
certainly enough play where I would have expected play to have
smoothed out close to mathematical expectations. (Thankfully, the
casinos where I played on a trip basis or once a week, showered me
with an unexpected bounty.) This year, I am comfortably ahead in both
of these casinos.

So, yes, certain casinos can appear cursed over a short or
intermediate period, but the curse magically lifts with a slopped set
of ducks and a three card royal draw.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "keenman55" <keenman55@y...> wrote:

#3

I think its dumb luck, or in some places, lack of it.
   A casino could lose it's license for messing with the machine's. Beside's, if everyone lost all the time, noone would come back and they would go broke.

Ned C.
The Wild Joker

···

keenman55 <keenman55@yahoo.com> wrote:

I know that casinos that have FP machine are a better place to play
and I try to go to those places. I just keep getting this idea, after
many hours of VP, that some casinos will give a better frequency of
good hands (assuming 'perfect strategy' on my part) than others.

I know I'm setting myself up here. That's OK. For those who might be
inclined to take me to task here, I would ask this question: "Are
there casinos that you play at in which you simply do not win,
irrespective of pay tables?"

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

Being from the east coast I have pondered this question many times. Let your
empirical experience guide you. For example, In Nevada where I have played
over 1,000,000 hands of VP - My average machine play is 100% EV - and actual
return was $100 for every $100 put into play. Fair , honest - on the level
in theory and practice. In AC where my average machine payback is 99% - my
actual return for over 1,000, 000 hands has been $89 for every $100 dollars
in. You know what my conclusion is don't you- ITS FIXED THERE! I still go to
AC , but play the better paying table games such as Spanish 21 where the
average return is 99.6% EV. So far , so good, but I will have to play
another 10,000 hands before I trust that game entirely cause of what
happened to me at VP.
So keep records, and only play where you can beat them long term.

best wishes...Tom

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "keenman55" <keenman55@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 7:40 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Winning / Losing

I've been playing VP for about 4 years now. I practice on WP lots and
lots. I've been to LV (many times), Biloxi and the 2 CT casinos.

There's still something I can't seem to get through my thick head. I
know that the pay tables on the front of VP machines tell you about
how loose or tight a machine is regarding winning hands. My
experience, admittedly "anectodal" tells me simply this: at certain
casinos I have a better chance of winning (i.e., getting deal frequent
'good hands" (straights, flushes, full houses, quads, RF's, etc) and
at others I have less of a chance.

This admittedly unscientific observation comes after having spent many
hours planted in front of machines at many casinos. On my most recent
trip to LV, for example, I couldn't win for losing at Fiesta Henderson.
(On the my previous visit to LV, I had the same experience at FH) Yet,
I "knew" that if I went up the road to Sam's Town to a certain bank of
DB machines, I would have a good experience. (Based on my experience
there) And I did, 3 days in a row.

Am I halluncinating here? It sure does seem that in addition to better
vs. worse pay tables some casinos just offer up more frequent winning
hands than others. When I play at the 2 CT casinos, I simply do not
experience the frequency of good hands that is my experience out in LV
(as another example)

I know that casinos that have FP machine are a better place to play
and I try to go to those places. I just keep getting this idea, after
many hours of VP, that some casinos will give a better frequency of
good hands (assuming 'perfect strategy' on my part) than others.

I know I'm setting myself up here. That's OK. For those who might be
inclined to take me to task here, I would ask this question: "Are
there casinos that you play at in which you simply do not win,
irrespective of pay tables?"

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