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win poker question

#1

Super DDB +

Pay schedule in win poker 5,5,15,20,25,40,250,4-2,3,4 no kick; 400, 4-
J,Q,K with J,Q,K,A kick; 800, 4A- 800, 4-2,3,4 with A,2,3,4-800, 4A
with J,Q,K-1600; 4A with kick 2000, SF-258, ROY4000.

One chart I have says 99.69. I in put the numbers probably wrong into
win poker and got 97.8. I am wondering what I might have done wrong in
defining game? Any thoughts?

Jeep

PS I caught some mistakes in defining kickers but finally when I
thought I got it right the payback number went bonkers.

#2

whitejeeps wrote:

Super DDB +

Pay schedule in win poker 5,5,15,20,25,40,250,4-2,3,4 no kick; 400,
4-J,Q,K with J,Q,K,A kick; 800, 4A- 800, 4-2,3,4 with A,2,3,4-800,
4A with J,Q,K-1600; 4A with kick 2000, SF-258, ROY4000.

One chart I have says 99.69. I in put the numbers probably wrong
into win poker and got 97.8. I am wondering what I might have done
wrong in defining game? Any thoughts?

Jeep

PS I caught some mistakes in defining kickers but finally when I
thought I got it right the payback number went bonkers.

Defining kicker games in winpoker is a tedious exercise in both
patience and frustration. Erroneous ER's typically result from
failure to identify all kicker possibilities, or defining duplicates.
Cull through your definitions and I'm sure you'll get to the correct
99.68.

Analyze kicker games with any frequency? If so, it's time to upgrade
to newer "generation" software. Consider Wolf VP, Frugal VP, or VP
for Winners. Dealing with kickers is a snap.

- H.

#3

Super DDB +

Pay schedule in win poker 5,5,15,20,25,40,250,4-2,3,4 no kick; 400,

4-

J,Q,K with J,Q,K,A kick; 800, 4A- 800, 4-2,3,4 with A,2,3,4-800, 4A
with J,Q,K-1600; 4A with kick 2000, SF-258, ROY4000.

One chart I have says 99.69. I in put the numbers probably wrong

into

win poker and got 97.8. I am wondering what I might have done wrong

in

defining game? Any thoughts?

Jeep

PS I caught some mistakes in defining kickers but finally when I
thought I got it right the payback number went bonkers.

Jeep,

I got 99.6859% with a variance of 50.95820 in WinPoker. However,
I had to assume that quad J,Q,K with no J,Q,K,A kicker pays 250, same
as quad 5's-10's. Your post is missing this information. According to
WinPoker, quad J,Q,K with no kicker accounts for 1.70% of return, but
your 97.8% return is too low by nearly 1.90%, so perhaps you have
another slight error or two.

Below is the WinPoker output... sorry in advance for the poor
formatting! Notice that the complete paytable contains three separate
lines for quad A's (2,3,4 kicker; J,Q,K kicker; and no kicker), two
apiece for quad 2,3,4 (with A,2,3,4 kicker and no kicker) and quad
J,Q,K (with J,Q,K,A kicker and no kicker: this is the one you're
probably missing), and one for quad 5's-10's.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Double Double Bonus Plus
Hand Name Payout Frequency % Prob. Occurs Every % of
Ret.
Royal Flush 4000 64.702759 0.002% 40167.68 1.99%
Straight Flush 250 269.67609 0.010% 9637.339 0.52%
4 Aces w 2,3,4 2000 156.69458 0.006% 16586.15 2.41%
4 Aces w K,Q,J 1600 164.89640 0.006% 15761.17 2.03%
4 2,3,4 with A,2,3,4 800 372.10623 0.014% 6984.457
  2.29%
4 J,Q,K with A,K,Q,J 800 505.55114 0.019% 5140.845
  3.11%
4 Aces No Kicker 800 288.81541 0.011% 8998.689
  1.78%
4 2,3,4 No Kicker 400 999.19509 0.038% 2601.054
  3.08%
4 J,Q,K No Kicker 250 884.08391 0.034% 2939.721
  1.70%
4 5's to 10's 250 2733.1963 0.105% 950.8867 5.26%
Full House 40 28281.832 1.088% 91.89504 8.71%
Flush 25 28299.253 1.089% 91.83847 5.44%
Straight 20 32606.609 1.255% 79.70654 5.02%
3 of a Kind 15 196173.28 7.548% 13.24829 22.64%
Two Pair 5 320681.13 12.339% 8.104499 12.34%
Jacks or Better 5 555292.15 21.366% 4.680347 21.37%
NOTHING 0 1431186.8 55.068% 1.815947 0.00%
Total Return 99.6859%
Variance 50.95820

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "whitejeeps" <whitejeeps@...> wrote:

#4

Dog...

I found my mistake. My numbers didn't seem right. I went over to 5
card and found the same as you posted. However, I defined the game
wrong in Win Pok. I missed J,Q,K with no kicker. I put in J,Q,K with
no kicker and analyzed the game. I was right on the money. Never had
this problem before as I never had a desire to play kicker games;
especially games with crazy payouts and high variance. But sometime,
an old dog has to learn new tricks.

Thanks for the info....Jeep
.
.

Pay schedule in win poker 5,5,15,20,25,40,250,4-2,3,4 no kick; 400,
4-
> J,Q,K with J,Q,K,A kick; 800, 4A- 800, 4-2,3,4 with A,2,3,4-800,

4A

> with J,Q,K-1600; 4A with kick 2000, SF-258, ROY4000.
>
> One chart I have says 99.69. I in put the numbers probably wrong
into
> win poker and got 97.8. I am wondering what I might have done

wrong

in
> defining game? Any thoughts?
>
> Jeep
>
> PS I caught some mistakes in defining kickers but finally when I
> thought I got it right the payback number went bonkers.
>

Jeep,

I got 99.6859% with a variance of 50.95820 in WinPoker. However,
I had to assume that quad J,Q,K with no J,Q,K,A kicker pays 250,

same

as quad 5's-10's. Your post is missing this information. According

to

WinPoker, quad J,Q,K with no kicker accounts for 1.70% of return,

but

your 97.8% return is too low by nearly 1.90%, so perhaps you have
another slight error or two.

Below is the WinPoker output... sorry in advance for the poor
formatting! Notice that the complete paytable contains three

separate

lines for quad A's (2,3,4 kicker; J,Q,K kicker; and no kicker), two
apiece for quad 2,3,4 (with A,2,3,4 kicker and no kicker) and quad
J,Q,K (with J,Q,K,A kicker and no kicker: this is the one you're
probably missing), and one for quad 5's-10's.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Double Double Bonus Plus
Hand Name Payout Frequency % Prob. Occurs Every % of
Ret.
Royal Flush 4000 64.702759 0.002% 40167.68 1.99%
Straight Flush 250 269.67609 0.010% 9637.339

  0.52%

4 Aces w 2,3,4 2000 156.69458 0.006% 16586.15

  2.41%

4 Aces w K,Q,J 1600 164.89640 0.006% 15761.17

  2.03%

4 2,3,4 with A,2,3,4 800 372.10623 0.014% 6984.457
  2.29%
4 J,Q,K with A,K,Q,J 800 505.55114 0.019% 5140.845
  3.11%
4 Aces No Kicker 800 288.81541 0.011% 8998.689
  1.78%
4 2,3,4 No Kicker 400 999.19509 0.038% 2601.054
  3.08%
4 J,Q,K No Kicker 250 884.08391 0.034% 2939.721
  1.70%
4 5's to 10's 250 2733.1963 0.105% 950.8867 5.26%
Full House 40 28281.832 1.088% 91.89504 8.71%
Flush 25 28299.253 1.089% 91.83847 5.44%
Straight 20 32606.609 1.255% 79.70654 5.02%
3 of a Kind 15 196173.28 7.548% 13.24829 22.64%
Two Pair 5 320681.13 12.339% 8.104499 12.34%
Jacks or Better 5 555292.15 21.366% 4.680347

  21.37%

···

NOTHING 0 1431186.8 55.068% 1.815947 0.00%
Total Return 99.6859%
Variance 50.95820