vpFREE2 Forums

Win Poker Problems?

Lately (after about four years play on it) my "Win Poker" Program
has been giving me some problems. I've noticed that it's been making
a few mistakes in the card selections. In Deuce Wild, among others,
it's starting to hold two to a straight flush (8-9 of Spades for
example) when it clearly is not the correct hold.
   Also, I've run a lot of different pay scales on Double Bonus to
check the return percent. Now it no longer gives me the answer. I get
this message instead after it's finished running the analysis:

···

-------------------------------------------
                                          x
   C:\PROGRAM FILES\BDPWG DOUBLE BONUS

     Error Writing to the file!
     Either your disk is full or the file
     name in the title bar is> 64K

    Free up disk space or delete
    entries in this file

                    OK
-------------------------------------------

   Anybody else having these kind of problems?

   Terry Murphy & VP Pappy

   "An early morning Royal Flush is a blessing for the whole day."
                    --VP Pappy

vppappy wrote:

   Lately (after about four years play on it) my "Win Poker" Program
has been giving me some problems. I've noticed that it's been making
a few mistakes in the card selections. In Deuce Wild, among others,
it's starting to hold two to a straight flush (8-9 of Spades for
example) when it clearly is not the correct hold.

I can't speak to this, but the first thing to do is to VERY carefully
check both the 1-coin and 5-coin paytables to be 100% sure that
they're set correctly. Also, to make sure that you're playing with a
full 5-coin wager.

I have a suspicion that the problem may lie somewhere here. Normally,
in absence of anything else good to hold, a 2 card SF hold in DW isn't
terribly off the mark vs. holding nothing. If the S, F, or SF pays
are set too high inadvertantly, then it might be enough to favor the
2-SF hold over nothing.

Also, I've run a lot of different pay scales on Double Bonus to
check the return percent. Now it no longer gives me the answer. I
get this message instead after it's finished running the analysis:

-------------------------------------------
                                          x
   C:\PROGRAM FILES\BDPWG DOUBLE BONUS

     Error Writing to the file!
     Either your disk is full or the file
     name in the title bar is> 64K

Tim,

It's an unfortunate aspect of Winpoker that, in saving the analysis
for every paytable of a game that you analyze, can only store
something like 63 different analyses. Once you exceed the limit, it
won't complete any further analysis for that game because it gets hung
up when writing the results to the game file.

To resolve this, it's necessary to remove the *.gam file from the
bdpw6 file directory. This will erase all the existing game analysis,
which simply means that if you try to look at the analysis for a
paytable that you've previously analyzed, it will tell you need to
rerun the analysis. It won't have any other effect.

After you delete the file for a game, when you analyze a paytable for
that game the next time, the file will be recreated.

Since this is the first time that you've attempted this, it would be
best to rename the file rather than delete it. That way you can undo
the change if any problem occurs.

To do this for Deuces Wild (assuming that's the game for which the
problem occurs when you analyze the paytable), erase (or rename) the
file called "DEUCES WILD.gam" from the "bdpw6" directory, typically
located within your "programs" directory. (This is for Windows ME,
but I would expect is similar for installs on most other operating
systems.)

If you need further guidance, feel free to email me and I'd be pleased
to help.

- Harry

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>

I have a suspicion that the problem may lie somewhere here.

Normally, in absence of anything else good to hold, a 2 card SF hold
in DW isn't terribly off the mark vs. holding nothing. If the S, F,
or SF pays are set too high inadvertantly, then it might be enough to
favor the 2-SF hold over nothing.

In NSUD, it is indeed sometimes correct to hold 2 card suited
connectors by themselves vs. draw five - it depends on what other
cards are present. It's possible that the pay table might have been
changed to analyze NSUD or some similar deuces game and not changed
back to the default pay table for deuces. On the other hand, if the
program indicates that 2 card Straight Flushes should be held for
regular full pay deuces wild - that may be a programming problem. It
would be interesting to know the exact hand so that others could
check it with their version of WinPoker.

EE

eecounter wrote:

In NSUD, it is indeed sometimes correct to hold 2 card suited
connectors by themselves vs. draw five - it depends on what other
cards are present.

Interestingly enough, I think the only NSUD hands for which this is
true are:

a suited 8,9 plus 3,4,A, and
a suited 7,8 plus 3,K,A.

The 3 additional cards must be suited differently than the 2cd SF.
Additionally, in the case of the 3,4,A, clearly they can't be all the
same suit.

This leaves all possible straight and flush combinations to the 2cd SF
available on the draw -- enough to push the value of the 2 card hold
above that of a full redraw.

(Note, given vppappy's original statement, I did assume that he
believed the paytable was set to FPDW.)

- H.

Harry Porter wrote

Interestingly enough, I think the only NSUD hands for which this is
true are:

a suited 8,9 plus 3,4,A, and
a suited 7,8 plus 3,K,A.

Set this reply aside, will you? I really need to read my posts
through a couple of times before hitting "Send".

The criteria would be that
- the discards don't present penalties to the two held cards, and
- the two held cards must have a full range of (6) straight
possibilities open.

For example, 8,9 has 5-9 through 8-Q.
Additional cards for 8,9 would be A,3,K / 3,4,K / etc.

There are more than just the two original I hands I noted that fill
the bill).

- Harry

The criteria would be that
- the discards don't present penalties to the two held cards, and
- the two held cards must have a full range of (6) straight
possibilities open.

I am sure that there are instances where holding a 9-10s is possible as well
as 8-9s, but the effect is miniscule. This startled me at first, also.
-- Steve in LV

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

Harry Porter wrote

> Interestingly enough, I think the only NSUD hands for which this

is

···

> true are:
>
> a suited 8,9 plus 3,4,A, and
> a suited 7,8 plus 3,K,A.

The criteria would be that
- the discards don't present penalties to the two held cards, and
- the two held cards must have a full range of (6) straight
possibilities open.

For example, 8,9 has 5-9 through 8-Q.
Additional cards for 8,9 would be A,3,K / 3,4,K / etc.

There are more than just the two original I hands I noted that fill
the bill).

- Harry

=====================================================================

   Harry, I think you've nailed it. It was NSUD, and the two cards
that I saw were the 8,9 of Spades. I saw this combination twice in a
short period of time and just assumed that the program was on tilt.
I've been running NSUD some more and Win Poker seems to be behaving
it's self. Randomness is a bitch.
   
   Forgive me Bob Dancer, I have sinned!

   Terry Murphy & VP Pappy

   "Did you ever notice that the gamblers who need advice the most,
want it the least."
                     --VP Pappy

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

Set this reply aside, will you? I really need to read my posts
through a couple of times before hitting "Send".

The criteria would be that
- the discards don't present penalties to the two held cards, and
- the two held cards must have a full range of (6) straight
possibilities open.

For example, 8,9 has 5-9 through 8-Q.
Additional cards for 8,9 would be A,3,K / 3,4,K / etc.

There are more than just the two original I hands I noted that fill
the bill).

- Harry

Harry,

I figured that you were just a little too quick on the trigger when I
read your first message ;-).

Interestingly, there are quite a few instances in NSUD where it is
still correct to hold the two card suited connectors even WITH a
single straight penalty card. But the straight penalty card must be
relatively "far" away from the connectors, and it also depends upon
the rank AND suit of the other cards. Here is just one such
example. You may want to verify this yourself with WinPoker.

Hand = (T9)754 where the T9 are suited and the 754 are all different
suits and also not suited with the T9:

Expected Return for 5 coin bet:

T9 = 1.5877
Draw 5 = 1.5851

Now, take the same hand but change the suits so that the 4 & 5 are
suited with each other:

Expected Return for 5 coin bet:

Draw 5 = 1.5895
T9 = 1.5877

In the first hand, hold the suited connectors. In the second hand,
draw 5.

There is a whole list (roughly 100 or so) of these types of hands in
NSUD where you should hold the two suited connectors rather than draw
5, even though there is a straight penalty. But the cost of making
the "incorrect" play in these instances is - of course - quite
negligible. The generic rule of holding the suited connectors only
with no flush or straight penalty cards works very well.

Footnote: Joker Poker (Kings+) has the same problem.

EE