vpFREE2 Forums

Why tip?

#1

OK, some of you might call me cheap or Australian (they don't tip in
Australia), but I don't feel like voluntarily giving more money to a
greedy multi-billion dollar corporation. In fact I kinda feel like
they should be tipping me.

I feel that the multi-billion dollar corporation should be paying their
employees adequately so they don't have to rely on the customers to pay
them.

I don't have a problem with tips, if you're feeling generous or want to
reward someone for a job well done that's fine, but when it feels like
you have an obligation to tip I think that's wrong.

Does anyone have any good reasons why I should tip or what will happen
to me if I don't?

#2

OK, some of you might call me cheap or Australian (they don't tip in
Australia), but I don't feel like voluntarily giving more money to a
greedy multi-billion dollar corporation. In fact I kinda feel like
they should be tipping me.

I was in Sydney a short time ago and played some live poker. At the
$500 cap level it was %10 to $10 plus per pot (yea, that is right) $10
per half an hour. And I don't think drinks were free. At the $1k or
$2k cap level it was "just" a flat $35 per half hour. From what I
heard it was a little less in Melbourne. More like %6 to $10 + 10/HH
and $30/HH. What a deal!

Compare that to 10% to $5 plus a $1 toke per pot and drinks are free
(which I don't think was true in Sydney) and I'll tell you which one
I'd pick.

Personally I thought the dealers were _slightly_ better in Sydney.
Still not worth paying something more then 2Xs as much.

I'm not sure how this compares to the Video Poker as I couldn't find
any that was worth looking at. But if it is in line with that then I
think I might choose to toke.

I feel that the multi-billion dollar corporation should be paying their
employees adequately so they don't have to rely on the customers to pay
them.

If it were a choice between 10% to $5 plus toke or 10% to $5 with no
toke and the service was the same then I'd take the later. But it
isn't. Realize that the casinos are not just going to give up part of
the multibillion revenue flow easily. Either you pay more indirectly
or you pay a good chunk of the casino employees wage through tokes.
Take your pick.

FWIW with VP and TITO these days the times when you would even be
dealing with a human that might expect a toke is becoming rarer.

I don't have a problem with tips, if you're feeling generous or want to
reward someone for a job well done that's fine, but when it feels like
you have an obligation to tip I think that's wrong.

I tend not to get hung up on the individual parts of the compensation
package and look at the overall number. I'll take toking in NV over
what I saw in Oz anyday.

Does anyone have any good reasons why I should tip or what will happen
to me if I don't?

You can stiff all you want. Generally little will happen to *you*.
If it became the norm I suspect those multibillion dollar corps would
choose to go the way of Oz and just double the vig and give half of it
to the employees. In some places I've seen stiffs have their hands
mucked quicker, have marginal decision go the wrong way, not get
cocktail service as often, etc. I suspect esp. in smaller casinos
that might map to not getting as good of comps, etc. for VP players.
I think it comes down to using common sense. A lot of getting along
in casinos involves understanding how to deal with people.

FWIW a part of casino traffic in NV involves casino employees going
through that cash in the pockets after shift. That is subsidizing
your play assuming you are being smart. I suspect that isn't as good
if it all comes in a pay check.

                              mph

···

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:44 PM, tigerdragonfly7 <gotpal@gmail.com> wrote:

#3

oh, i agree. but they don't.

and personally, i like having the cocktail waitress come by
frequently, i like having my hand pays handled promptly, and i like
dealing with people who are cheerful rather than resentful.

furthermore, when i'm playing something +EV, i like not being the
center of negative attention. it might help the play last longer, and
that makes up for a lot of small tips. it might keep me welcome at the
property for longer, which makes up for even more.

if the employees resent the size of my tips - most people tip more
than $5 on $1250 - then they won't be burdened with them in the
future. but i find that the difference between $0 and $5 is usually
way bigger than the difference between say $5 and $20, in terms of the
reaction it gets.

cheers,

five

···

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:44 PM, tigerdragonfly7 <gotpal@gmail.com> wrote:

I feel that the multi-billion dollar corporation should be paying their
employees adequately so they don't have to rely on the customers to pay
them.

#4

"tigerdragonfly7" <gotpal@...> wrote:

I don't feel like voluntarily giving more money to a
greedy multi-billion dollar corporation.

Why consider the corporation any more greedy than you are? You desire
to win money gambling. You resist giving tips because you want to
keep money. Isn't that greedy?

Of course the corporation could eliminate tips, pay employees more,
and make up the profit difference by raising prices and lowering pay
tables. That's their decision. It's not my job to run the
corporation, but to make my own decisions based on how the current
set-up really works.

In fact I kinda feel like they should be tipping me.

It's clearly part of our quaint local customs that service people
don't tip customers, but often customers do tip service people. It's
not a matter of right and wrong, it's just the expected custom. Like
many points of ettiquette, it's not forced on us, but followed by
common agreement.

Most people know and understand the custom, and make their decisions
accordingly. For instance, if the 15-20% tip customary for
restaurants makes the meal too expensive, then people eat at home, or
go to a cheaper restaurant, or order cheaper items from the menu.

Likewise, since tipping .5% or 1% of a hand-paid jackpot is part of
the ettiquette, we can just factor that in to the decision of whether
or how much to gamble.

Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

#5

So you're less likely to be the next victim of identity theft.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tigerdragonfly7" <gotpal@...> wrote:

Does anyone have any good reasons why I should tip or what will happen
to me if I don't?

#6

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

> Does anyone have any good reasons why I should tip or what will

happen

> to me if I don't?

So you're less likely to be the next victim of identity theft.

Or the victim of E Coli. For Example: Tiger Woods is a notorious
non-tipper, and never pays for meals. He never brings cash or credit
cards and always insists that others pay or the meal be comped.
Servers have long memories. Tiger also has a higher than average
incidence of food poisoning. Wonder why?

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tigerdragonfly7" <gotpal@> wrote:

#7

OK, some of you might call me cheap or Australian
(they don't tip in
Australia),

Yes they do or did ,been 35 years since last visit ,
great place for RnR, Aussies are good people, lots of
fun.

but I don't feel like voluntarily giving

more money to a
greedy multi-billion dollar corporation.

Who does ? and Who does ??

In fact I

kinda feel like
they should be tipping me.

Free rooms, free food , free money , 100% games,
I think they tip me pretty good. Why not you ?

I feel that the multi-billion dollar corporation
should be paying their
employees adequately so they don't have to rely on
the customers to pay
them.

Need an economics class, Customers ALWAYS pay , how do
your multi billion corps got that way ? and what the
heck is wrong with making money?? These multi billion
corps are funding a nice retirement for me & lots of
other people, including investments in the land of OZ.

I don't have a problem with tips, if you're feeling
generous or want to
reward someone for a job well done.

What other reason is there ? Who tips for bad service
? and what if you are feeling pissy?? How is it
"their" problem?

that's fine, but

when it feels like
you have an obligation to tip I think that's wrong.

I have NEVER felt obligated to tip anywhere, would not
allow it.

Does anyone have any good reasons why I should tip

Feeling generous or for a job well done, something
like that.

or just a classy thing to do.

or what will happen
to me if I don't?

Nothing at all, I disagree with previous posters on
that. I do not belive you would be harmed, get a warm
beer maybe . Pay full price for sure. Bad Karma if you
belive in that .

Do what you need.

M J

···

--- tigerdragonfly7 <gotpal@gmail.com> wrote:

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#8

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tigerdragonfly7" <gotpal@...>
wrote:

OK, some of you might call me cheap or Australian (they don't tip

in

Australia), but I don't feel like voluntarily giving more money to

a

greedy multi-billion dollar corporation. In fact I kinda feel like
they should be tipping me.

I feel that the multi-billion dollar corporation should be paying

their

employees adequately so they don't have to rely on the customers to

pay

them.

I don't have a problem with tips, if you're feeling generous or

want to

reward someone for a job well done that's fine, but when it feels

like

you have an obligation to tip I think that's wrong.

Does anyone have any good reasons why I should tip or what will

happen

to me if I don't?

If you were to get pitched off some big fat play because you pissed
off some service employee by not tipping, it would not be the first
time it ever happened to someone.

#9

I guess that we (who do tip) do so for a variety of different
reasons. Apparently, some tip out of the fear of some dreadful
retribution i.e. copying a SS# and selling it to an identity thief,
or reaching into a handy stash of E.Coli bacteria, and poisoning
our comped meal or beverage, or perhaps just spitting into a Gin &
Tonic. We may also tip "to insure prompt service", the original
definition of the term, I beieve.

I tip because that is what I learned to do from observing the
actions of my generous parents. I remember clearly, that when I was
a child living through the awful days of the great depression, that
my parents continued to give something to service people, who had
even less than they did.

I tip because I am a recreational player, fortunate enough to be
able to enjoy myself by playing games of my choice in a casino.

I tip because it makes me feel happy to do so.

I tip WELL after a big win because I want to share some of my
pleasure with those around me.

We must all conduct ourselves, in and out of gambling
establishments, as our conscience guides us. I would not feel good
about myself, or my win, were I not to tip.

I have no quarrel with professional players, who because of a razor
thin advantage, do not toke, because they feel that this generosity
will put them in the red.

Again, this is just my personal opinion, and an explanation of why I
feel that tipping is an integral part of the casino experience.

~Babe~

···

====================================================
In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tigerdragonfly7" <gotpal@> wrote:

Does anyone have any good reasons why I should tip or what will
happen to me if I don't?

In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" wrote:

So you're less likely to be the next victim of identity theft.

In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "William Canevari" wrote:

Or the victim of E Coli. For Example: Tiger Woods is a notorious
non-tipper, and never pays for meals..........
Tiger also has a higher than average incidence of food poisoning.
Wonder why?

#10

tip in Australia).........

···

In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tigerdragonfly7" <gotpal@...> wrote:

OK, some of you might call me cheap or Australian (they don't

========================================
I don't understand that statement. I have traveled all over your
beautiful country of Australia (Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney,
Queensland, Cairns, Adelaide, Hobart, Alice Springs, Ayers Rock
{Uluru} etc.) Nowhere, in any of those wonderful and varied
Australian locations, was a "no-tipping" policy encouraged or
recommended.

Perhaps you are not taking into account the mandatory gratuitity,
(commonly 10 to 20%) that is frequently added to the restaurant or
hotel bill and itemized as a "service charge".

In all the eating establishments that we patronized during a four
week trip, tipping was expected, accepted and appreciated.

Even when a service charge was already included in the bill, if the
service was exlempary, we added a little extra to show our pleasure.

What part of Australia are you from where (you say) tipping
practices are evidently different?

but I don't feel like voluntarily giving more money to a

greedy multi-billion dollar corporation......

But you would not be doing that at all. Most likely you would be
giving your money to a hard working, lower echelon employee, who is
not compensated very well, and depends on the kindness of others to
help support his/her family.

In fact I kinda feel like they should be tipping me.

==============================================
Why would that be? Because you are gracing their establishment with
your presence?

I presume that if you are a member of this list that you are aware
of good pay tables, and that perhaps you even know how to play good
machines after you find them. I'll even presume that you have
learned to play the "comp game" and are already "getting something
back" from the casino. Perhaps you are also receiving CB and/or FP,
the casino's version of "tipping" their good customers. Do you
really believe that the casino should be doing more for you
monetarily?

~Babe~