vpFREE2 Forums

Why Do They Tolerate Us?

#1

I just got back from a trip to Reno and my wife and I stayed four free
nights at the Atlantis. Based on previous history, we played enough to
continue getting offers. Nearly all our play was on full-pay machines.
Our losses don't justify the continued offers that we get.

My question to this list is what is in this for the Atlantis? If I
owned the place, I would offer top returns of say 97%-98% to discourage
advantage players. As I see it, we are just a nuisance for them. We
eat their comped food and stay in free rooms. Instead, there are good
games virtually everywhere in the casino. What don't I get?

Rick

#2

If you're still getting offers, they still think they can beat you, by
hook or by crook. Enjoy the free ride while you can. If the total of
your wins is greater than the total of your loses, they will
eventually cut you off. The expression used is: "You're too good for us."

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "rbgroff0715" <rbgroff@...> wrote:

I just got back from a trip to Reno and my wife and I stayed four free
nights at the Atlantis. Based on previous history, we played enough to
continue getting offers. Nearly all our play was on full-pay machines.
Our losses don't justify the continued offers that we get.

My question to this list is what is in this for the Atlantis? If I
owned the place, I would offer top returns of say 97%-98% to discourage
advantage players. As I see it, we are just a nuisance for them. We
eat their comped food and stay in free rooms. Instead, there are good
games virtually everywhere in the casino. What don't I get?

Rick

#3

Atlantis has a secret formula for 86'ing you - its something like
Won $X dollars over Y months and plays here at least Z days per year.
Ask your slot host for precise numbers and rules, doubt they will tell you explicitly - But both Pepp and ATL have 86 criteria. When recognized AP's move from Flea status to a impact plaryers they take notice.
Nobody answered my previous question, but Virender Bali is no longer with Atlantis, and he was one of the most generous hosts in all Reno. Could he have ignored the "secret" formula and got fired ?
best wishes to all...Tom

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "rbgroff0715" <rbgroff@cableone.net>
To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 12:13 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [vpFREE_Reno] Why Do They Tolerate Us?

I just got back from a trip to Reno and my wife and I stayed four free
nights at the Atlantis. Based on previous history, we played enough to
continue getting offers. Nearly all our play was on full-pay machines.
Our losses don't justify the continued offers that we get.

My question to this list is what is in this for the Atlantis? If I
owned the place, I would offer top returns of say 97%-98% to discourage
advantage players. As I see it, we are just a nuisance for them. We
eat their comped food and stay in free rooms. Instead, there are good
games virtually everywhere in the casino. What don't I get?

#4

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

If you're still getting offers, they still think they can beat you, by
hook or by crook. Enjoy the free ride while you can. If the total of
your wins is greater than the total of your loses, they will
eventually cut you off. The expression used is: "You're too good for

us."

You always do that. Make statements that you won't or can't prove and
get all scairdy when I ask you for facts. All you say is that people
from the casinos read these posts. Well, DUH?? Didn't you think they
would want to read these to see how they are doing?? I have heard tales
of some players overplaying an obvious mistaken pay table WHILE USING
THEIR CARDS!! Gee, rub their face in it and they might stop sending you
comps or offers figuring that you took them for enough. Maybe trying to
teach someone a lesson. I do fine, I generally win, I ride in a limo, I
stay in a suite and I don't pay for anything. Going on 4 years now. To
the newbies that read these posts: the doom and gloom posters should be
taken with a grain of salt, or perhaps the salted rim of a magarita
glass. The casinos are there for business and the more asses they can
put in the seats, the happier they are. They are generous and mostly
very happy to see you return. When I won $10,000 last year at the
Peppermill, my host made a big deal with taking pictures and getting a
small crowd forming, saying that winners are good for the casino
because they inspire those who may not or haven't won. I keep going to
the Pepp, will be there from 4-10 to 4-13. Anybody want to discuss
this? I'll buy you dinner.
Jonathan

#5

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <diversified_slave@...>
wrote:

I do fine, I generally win, I ride in a limo, I
stay in a suite and I don't pay for anything. Going on 4 years now.

OK, Mr. "I always ride in a limo and stay in a suite and never pay for
anything", how much total have you won from the Peppermill and
Atlantis over the last four years?

By the way, does Lewinsky wet your cubans for you?

Do you hang with the lion?

http://www.brodietech.com/liontales/2007_03_01_liontales_archive.html
"Like the rest of the Peppermill, the Fireside Room was decorated in
lights and colors that were trendy in 1980, either a tribute to the
death of disco or what actually killed it."

#6

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

OK, Mr. "I always ride in a limo and stay in a suite and never pay for
anything", how much total have you won from the Peppermill and
Atlantis over the last four years?

Just started going to the Atlantis on my January trip. Lost $200 and
had a slot host call and personally welcome me to the Atlantis and then
they sent me a Platinum card in the mail. They are providing seafood
buffets for me and my traveling companions on my next trip in 2 weeks.
As far as the Peppermill is concerned, since I have been going there,
2004, I have had positive numbers on my win-loss statements in all but
one year. Some years better than others but always good and always fun.

By the way, does Lewinsky wet your cubans for you?

Nope, don't smoke.

Do you hang with the lion?

Not sure I understand this one??
Why are you so damn negative. If I was doing something that made me
feel so bad, I would stop doing it. You are the most negative poster I
have ever read. You are probably divorced, once, and have one child,
seems you don't do things twice unless you excel and I know that Cindy
Crawford isn't or wasn't married to a lizard. Lighten up bud.

#7

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <diversified_slave@...>
wrote:

Why are you so damn negative. If I was doing something that made me
feel so bad, I would stop doing it. You are the most negative poster I
have ever read. You are probably divorced, once, and have one child,
seems you don't do things twice unless you excel and I know that Cindy
Crawford isn't or wasn't married to a lizard. Lighten up bud.

Interesting read, completely wrong, but still an interesting read.
Speaks more about yourself than me. I wish I could pull the wool over
the Pepppermill like you have, but such is not the case. Kudos to you,
and hopefully you will pull even more money out of that place. It
would be nice if you would let us plain old folks in on your secrets
of success but I understand if you prefer to keep that information to
yourself. Pimp on, mackdaddy!

#8

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

Interesting read, completely wrong, but still an interesting read.
Speaks more about yourself than me. I wish I could pull the wool over
the Pepppermill like you have

What are you talking about?? I just go, play, go home and get mailers.
If things worked like you say, there would be no players with a level
higher than bronze. Everybody that I know from up here has a great time
in Reno and gets treated well. You must be the exception, not the rule.
It sucks to be you.

#9

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

Interesting read, completely wrong, but still an interesting read.

So, casino comp genius, what's wrong with my my conclusions??

#10

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <diversified_slave@...>
wrote:

What are you talking about?? I just go, play, go home and get mailers.
If things worked like you say, there would be no players with a level
higher than bronze. Everybody that I know from up here has a great time
in Reno and gets treated well. You must be the exception, not the rule.
It sucks to be you.

Well, it is true, my experience at the Peppermill has not been: "ride
in a limo, stay in a suite, and pay for nothing while mostly winning."
Now, maybe I'm the exception, but somehow I doubt that. Maybe all
those former Diamond and Royal Diamond players have been lying to me
when they tell me they've been downgraded to purple, but somehow I
doubt that also. Hey, don't get me wrong, I'd love to get in on this
action:
http://www.peppermillreno.com/gaming/promotions/rainbows_free_play
But for some reason I was disqualified. Why? The answer I got was:
"You're too good for us" and by the way, your comp account has been
cleared out. So, I have to hire people to play for me, that's just the
way it goes. I guess I could consider it a promotion?

#11

Nobody answered my previous question, but Virender Bali is no longer

with

Atlantis, and he was one of the most generous hosts in all Reno.

Could he

have ignored the "secret" formula and got fired ?

Good possibility. There's a lot of "stuff" going on, but since nothing
has been published yet in the newspaper, it's probably not a good idea
to be talking about "unsubstantiated rumors". It's like that guy that
was found dead in the Eldo parking garage, hey, nobody seen nuthin!
And of course the security cameras have been non-functional for years.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:

#12

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

Well, it is true, my experience at the Peppermill has not been: "ride
in a limo, stay in a suite, and pay for nothing while mostly winning."
Now, maybe I'm the exception, but somehow I doubt that. Maybe all
those former Diamond and Royal Diamond players have been lying to me
when they tell me they've been downgraded to purple, but somehow I
doubt that also. Hey, don't get me wrong, I'd love to get in on this
action:
http://www.peppermillreno.com/gaming/promotions/rainbows_free_play
But for some reason I was disqualified. Why? The answer I got was:
"You're too good for us" and by the way, your comp account has been
cleared out. So, I have to hire people to play for me, that's just the
way it goes. I guess I could consider it a promotion?

I used to live in Vegas where I was a small fish / big pond and got
little or no respect at anyplace better than Arizona Charlies. Now that
I live back in Washington state and do Reno every 3 months for a couple
days I can see the upside to not being a local. When I come down, they
treat me good for a couple days and then they don't have to deal with
me for several months. I am low maintenance to them. I don't know if
that really matters but I do an awful lot of gambling in a short stay:
i.e. $10 hand @ 600+ HPH (hands per hour) so I'm pushing $6K / Hr and
playing for 20+ hours per trip so I guess they have the possibility of
scoring a pretty good amount every 3 months. That may be why they treat
me so good. I don't know. I wasn't trying to be insulting to you, so my
apologies if it came across that way.

#13

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <diversified_slave@...>
wrote:

Now that
I live back in Washington state and do Reno every 3 months for a couple
days I can see the upside to not being a local. When I come down, they
treat me good for a couple days and then they don't have to deal with
me for several months. I am low maintenance to them.

There is something to be said for not overstaying your welcome and
leaving them wanting for you to come back. As Groucho Marx put it:
"I'll stay a week or two, perhaps the summer through, but I am telling
you, I must be going."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCvz8y_DUSY

I don't know if
that really matters but I do an awful lot of gambling in a short stay:
i.e. $10 hand @ 600+ HPH (hands per hour) so I'm pushing $6K / Hr and
playing for 20+ hours per trip so I guess they have the possibility of
scoring a pretty good amount every 3 months. That may be why they treat
me so good. I don't know.

The average player does not play computer perfect, they make little
mistakes here and there, a missed button, a missed card, and those
little mistakes add up. The casino figures on an average win, they
call it the theoretical, if you ask your host they might even tell you
what it is. For a typical breakeven game with computer perfect play,
the casino probably figures it can win a theoretical of a percent or
so, and that's what they base comps and freeplay on.

I wasn't trying to be insulting to you, so my
apologies if it came across that way.

Apology accepted and I owe you an apology also. I guess we push each
others buttons. It's probably mostly my fault, I'm jealous that you
still get to play there while I can only play by proxy.

#14

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "rbgroff0715" <rbgroff@...>
wrote:

I just got back from a trip to Reno and my wife and I stayed four

free

nights at the Atlantis. Based on previous history, we played

enough to

continue getting offers. Nearly all our play was on full-pay

machines.

Our losses don't justify the continued offers that we get.

My question to this list is what is in this for the Atlantis? If

I

owned the place, I would offer top returns of say 97%-98% to

discourage

advantage players. As I see it, we are just a nuisance for them.

We

eat their comped food and stay in free rooms. Instead, there are

good

games virtually everywhere in the casino. What don't I get?

Rick
***************************************************

The locals suck at VP from what I have noticed, lots of single coin
& 20-50 coin play at bad play tables on the bartops, not to mention
KENO.
Most players have some idea of paytables to play, but make mistakes,
DDB is the locals favorite also.

M J

#15

What VP do you play? With your through-put, at least $480,000, I figure
that statistically you would have to be loosing nearly $2000 per year if you
played the games I play, which are 6-9 JOB or NSUD.

Thanks

Rick

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE_R…@…com] On
Behalf Of Jonathan
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 7:41 AM
To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Why Do They Tolerate Us?

--- In vpFREE_Reno@ <mailto:vpFREE_Reno%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
"nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

Well, it is true, my experience at the Peppermill has not been: "ride
in a limo, stay in a suite, and pay for nothing while mostly winning."
Now, maybe I'm the exception, but somehow I doubt that. Maybe all
those former Diamond and Royal Diamond players have been lying to me
when they tell me they've been downgraded to purple, but somehow I
doubt that also. Hey, don't get me wrong, I'd love to get in on this
action:
http://www.peppermi

<http://www.peppermillreno.com/gaming/promotions/rainbows_free_play>
llreno.com/gaming/promotions/rainbows_free_play

But for some reason I was disqualified. Why? The answer I got was:
"You're too good for us" and by the way, your comp account has been
cleared out. So, I have to hire people to play for me, that's just the
way it goes. I guess I could consider it a promotion?

I used to live in Vegas where I was a small fish / big pond and got
little or no respect at anyplace better than Arizona Charlies. Now that
I live back in Washington state and do Reno every 3 months for a couple
days I can see the upside to not being a local. When I come down, they
treat me good for a couple days and then they don't have to deal with
me for several months. I am low maintenance to them. I don't know if
that really matters but I do an awful lot of gambling in a short stay:
i.e. $10 hand @ 600+ HPH (hands per hour) so I'm pushing $6K / Hr and
playing for 20+ hours per trip so I guess they have the possibility of
scoring a pretty good amount every 3 months. That may be why they treat
me so good. I don't know. I wasn't trying to be insulting to you, so my
apologies if it came across that way.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#16

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Rick and Becky Groff"
<rbgroff@...> wrote:

What VP do you play? With your through-put, at least $480,000, I figure
that statistically you would have to be loosing nearly $2000 per

year if you

played the games I play, which are 6-9 JOB or NSUD.

Are you including freeplay?

#17

Good question and I didn't consider free play. I just multiplied .0036
times $480,000. The number 0.36% is between the theoretical loss for NSUD
and 6-9 JOB. However, Jonathan says that on an annual basis he comes out
ahead and I am just curious how he manages since I seldom come out ahead.
For sure, I am not breaking even.

When I figure in the free room and the generous comps, it still seems like a
fairly inexpensive vacation however.

Rick

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE_R…@…com] On
Behalf Of nightoftheiguana2000
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 12:41 PM
To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Why Do They Tolerate Us?

--- In vpFREE_Reno@ <mailto:vpFREE_Reno%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
"Rick and Becky Groff"
<rbgroff@...> wrote:

What VP do you play? With your through-put, at least $480,000, I figure
that statistically you would have to be loosing nearly $2000 per

year if you

played the games I play, which are 6-9 JOB or NSUD.

Are you including freeplay?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#18

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Rick and Becky Groff"
<rbgroff@...> wrote:

The number 0.36% is between the theoretical loss for NSUD
and 6-9 JOB.

That's actually assuming computer perfect play. The term "theoretical"
is generally applied to what casinos think they can win based on
average (non-perfect) play. Typical theoretical for NSUD would be
about a percent.

However, Jonathan says that on an annual basis he comes out
ahead and I am just curious how he manages since I seldom come out

ahead.

He's probably only or mostly playing positive (advantage) plays, with
near computer perfect precision. Freeplay is also a significant factor.

#19

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Rick and Becky Groff"
<rbgroff@...> wrote:

What VP do you play? With your through-put, at least $480,000, I

figure

that statistically you would have to be loosing nearly $2000 per year

if you

played the games I play, which are 6-9 JOB or NSUD.

Thanks

Rick

I play DDB exclusivly, 9/6, 10/6 if I can find it. I'm pretty lucky and
I spend at least 8 hrs a week practicing with the VPW software. As the
saying goes: I'd rather be lucky than good.

#20

Jonathan,
I aggree with you on this theory. I think being an out of towner
matters. We play good games and have won alot and we do get regular -
really good offers. We love Reno. I am sure if we lived in Nevada
and especially in the Reno area we would not see anything from them.

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan"
<diversified_slave@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@> wrote:
>
> Well, it is true, my experience at the Peppermill has not

been: "ride

> in a limo, stay in a suite, and pay for nothing while mostly

winning."

> Now, maybe I'm the exception, but somehow I doubt that. Maybe all
> those former Diamond and Royal Diamond players have been lying to

me

> when they tell me they've been downgraded to purple, but somehow I
> doubt that also. Hey, don't get me wrong, I'd love to get in on

this

> action:
> http://www.peppermillreno.com/gaming/promotions/rainbows_free_play
> But for some reason I was disqualified. Why? The answer I got was:
> "You're too good for us" and by the way, your comp account has

been

> cleared out. So, I have to hire people to play for me, that's

just the

> way it goes. I guess I could consider it a promotion?
>
I used to live in Vegas where I was a small fish / big pond and got
little or no respect at anyplace better than Arizona Charlies. Now

that

I live back in Washington state and do Reno every 3 months for a

couple

days I can see the upside to not being a local. When I come down,

they

treat me good for a couple days and then they don't have to deal

with

me for several months. I am low maintenance to them. I don't know

if

that really matters but I do an awful lot of gambling in a short

stay:

i.e. $10 hand @ 600+ HPH (hands per hour) so I'm pushing $6K / Hr

and

playing for 20+ hours per trip so I guess they have the possibility

of

scoring a pretty good amount every 3 months. That may be why they

treat

me so good. I don't know. I wasn't trying to be insulting to you,

so my

···

apologies if it came across that way.