vpFREE2 Forums

Why carry a huge amount of points?

#1

Sheer curiousity brings this question. I played at Wynn late Wednesday
night on the full-pays and there was one other player on the machines.
If you are that player, I didn't want to interrupt your play. But I
could not help but notice the player had over 36,000 points on the
meter. At a rate of 500 points redeemed for $10, that sounds like
$720. My guess it that it has been accumulating for some time.

Does anybody else do this? When cashback is involved, I usually redeem
points once a month. Is there any added benefit to let points compile
to such a large amount?

#2

I actually know of a player who only cashes out his cashback once a year. He keeps
scrupulous notes of his wins and losses. Last April he cashed out about $3000.00 worth
and after totalling his wins to lossses realised he had lost nearly $7000.00 in the previous
twelve month period. He also calculates his taxes during the same time and usually is
owed a refund of several thousand dollars every year.Between the cashback and the tax
refund any loss is heavily subsidized or wiped out completely with money left over. On the
odd occasion he actually has had a winning year with no losses. It's a system that works
for him because he doesn't feel too awful when he realises how much money he has lost
over the year. To him cashback and tax refunds are variables depending on circumstances
and as such can go a long way to making one feel better if they mop up a lot of red ink....

MO

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <fromthevault@...> wrote:

Sheer curiousity brings this question. I played at Wynn late Wednesday
night on the full-pays and there was one other player on the machines.
If you are that player, I didn't want to interrupt your play. But I
could not help but notice the player had over 36,000 points on the
meter. At a rate of 500 points redeemed for $10, that sounds like
$720. My guess it that it has been accumulating for some time.

Does anybody else do this? When cashback is involved, I usually redeem
points once a month. Is there any added benefit to let points compile
to such a large amount?

#3

OUCH! Who is his tax consultant? Giving the governement a few thousand dollar tax free
loan on my money like that would make me run to another CPA as fas as I could. LOL

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mofromto2" <mofromto@...> wrote:

He also calculates his taxes during the same time and usually is
owed a refund of several thousand dollars every year.

#4

OUCH! Who is his tax consultant? Giving the governement a few thousand dollar tax free
loan on my money like that would make me run to another CPA as fas as I could. LOL

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mofromto2" <mofromto@...> wrote:

He also calculates his taxes during the same time and usually is
owed a refund of several thousand dollars every year.

#5

that was my immediate thought. Tax refunds are totally contrary to
the concept of advantage play.

···

On 5/26/06, bornloser1537 <bornloser1537@yahoo.com> wrote:

OUCH! Who is his tax consultant? Giving the governement a few thousand dollar tax free
loan on my money like that would make me run to another CPA as fas as I could. LOL

.....bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mofromto2" <mofromto@...> wrote:
>
> He also calculates his taxes during the same time and usually is
> owed a refund of several thousand dollars every year.

#6

Charles wrote: When cashback is involved, I usually redeem points once
a month. Is there any added benefit to let points compile
to such a large amount?

"Large amount" is in the eye of the beholder. $720 is a VERY large
amount for someone who only plays quarters, but it's very possible that
this person also plays higher stakes and was "slumming" for a while.
Wynn has a number of large denomination 9/6 Jacks, and accumulating
thousands of dollars cash back in a day or two isn't hard. For the
stakes I play, I often redeem cashback in $1,000, $5,000 or $10,000
increments. It's a matter of convenience. Exactly how much cash I keep
in various safe places is somewhat arbitrary. I do NOT deposit cash into
a bank every day. Keeping money in my slot club account or keeping it in
a safe deposit box receives exactly the same rate of interest. Last
year, when my net score was well over $300,000, I ended up with more
than $40,000 in unredeemed cashback at the end of the year, simply
because the way I keep records, cash back isn't recorded until I
actually take possession of it. Since you can't offset gambling losses
one year against wins from a previous year, letting cashback accumulate
is a legal way to get around this anomaly in the tax law. So far, this
year would be negative except for that cashback from last year, and
officially taking possession of the money this year means I pay a lower
tax rate on it, assuming I end up positive. I have not had a losing year
yet since I started video poker in 1994, but it likely will happen some
day. Having a "cushion" from the year before smooths things out and
reduces taxes. If my score picks up later in the year, I'll likely roll
cashback over until next year again

I think it was MO who wrote about a guy who collected cashback once a
year for psychological reasons. That's not at all why I do it. I do it
for tax-reduction reasons.

Bob Dancer

For the best in video poker information, visit www.bobdancer.com
or call 1-800-244-2224 M-F 9-5 Pacific Time.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

I appreciate the insight. The player in question was playing $1 DB,
so it seems that $720 is not an unusually high amount. As a quarter
player, I will likely never get anywhere even close to that amount.
I guess I just don't want to give up any points; as an example, the
Golden Nugget has kind of aggravated me since the Landry's buyout in
that they no longer offer double shot drinks. Seems trivial, but a
standard drink there is now pathetic, so I haven't gone there very
much in 2006. But at some point, I will have to go there and redeem
points before they expire.
   

"Large amount" is in the eye of the beholder. $720 is a VERY large
amount for someone who only plays quarters, but it's very possible

that

this person also plays higher stakes and was "slumming" for a

while.

Wynn has a number of large denomination 9/6 Jacks, and accumulating
thousands of dollars cash back in a day or two isn't hard. For the
stakes I play, I often redeem cashback in $1,000, $5,000 or $10,000
increments. It's a matter of convenience. Exactly how much cash I

keep

in various safe places is somewhat arbitrary. I do NOT deposit

cash into

a bank every day. Keeping money in my slot club account or keeping

it in

a safe deposit box receives exactly the same rate of interest. Last
year, when my net score was well over $300,000, I ended up with

more

than $40,000 in unredeemed cashback at the end of the year, simply
because the way I keep records, cash back isn't recorded until I
actually take possession of it. Since you can't offset gambling

losses

one year against wins from a previous year, letting cashback

accumulate

is a legal way to get around this anomaly in the tax law. So far,

this

year would be negative except for that cashback from last year, and
officially taking possession of the money this year means I pay a

lower

tax rate on it, assuming I end up positive. I have not had a

losing year

yet since I started video poker in 1994, but it likely will happen

some

day. Having a "cushion" from the year before smooths things out and
reduces taxes. If my score picks up later in the year, I'll likely

roll

cashback over until next year again

I think it was MO who wrote about a guy who collected cashback

once a

year for psychological reasons. That's not at all why I do it. I

do it

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@...> wrote:

for tax-reduction reasons.

Bob Dancer

For the best in video poker information, visit www.bobdancer.com
or call 1-800-244-2224 M-F 9-5 Pacific Time.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

I guess I just don't want to give up any points; as an example, the
Golden Nugget has kind of aggravated me since the Landry's buyout in
that they no longer offer double shot drinks. Seems trivial, but a
standard drink there is now pathetic, so I haven't gone there very
much in 2006. But at some point, I will have to go there and redeem
points before they expire.
   
I visited GN well after the Landry's takeover late March 2006, got
much more than my share of Double Scotch on the rocks.

Did you ever try tipping the bartender?

Jim in Tulsa

#9

As he is self-employed he pays installment taxes on his annual projected earnings. If you
underestimate your taxable earnings in Canada you not only have to pay the tax but you
also have to pay obscene interest rates on it of 10%! I think it would be better to get a tax
refund than a tax bill as if you are short on the installments you will be charged. I think his
CPA would wisely advise him to pay a little more so as to err on the side of caution and he
also would receive 8% interest on the refund.

MO

OUCH! Who is his tax consultant? Giving the governement a few thousand dollar tax

free

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@...> wrote:

loan on my money like that would make me run to another CPA as fas as I could. LOL

.....bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mofromto2" <mofromto@> wrote:
>
> He also calculates his taxes during the same time and usually is
> owed a refund of several thousand dollars every year.