vpFREE2 Forums

Which Way Do Casinos Go Now?

#1

Since the slowdown, they've lowered the room rates, some show prices, and maybe some food and beverage. These are all the things they've been raising over the last 6 years when things were booming. The only thin that they have NOT brought back to ACCEPTABLE LEVELS are the payouts on the slots and table games.

Can we ever expect to get these payouts back to former levels, or are the casinos caught in a "Catch-22" where they can't raise the payouts without the "fear" of lowering their bottom line. But if they do raise their payouts, they just might see a lot more customers return to their casino which would really add to their bottom line. Let's see which hotel steps it up and raises their payouts, and which hotel/casinos follow. What we need is another Reserve with thier highest payouts on every machine.

#2

amen

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Robert Levine
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:49 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Which Way Do Casinos Go Now?

  Since the slowdown, they've lowered the room rates, some show prices, and maybe some food and beverage. These are all the things they've been raising over the last 6 years when things were booming. The only thin that they have NOT brought back to ACCEPTABLE LEVELS are the payouts on the slots and table games.

  Can we ever expect to get these payouts back to former levels, or are the casinos caught in a "Catch-22" where they can't raise the payouts without the "fear" of lowering their bottom line. But if they do raise their payouts, they just might see a lot more customers return to their casino which would really add to their bottom line. Let's see which hotel steps it up and raises their payouts, and which hotel/casinos follow. What we need is another Reserve with thier highest payouts on every machine.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09 05:53:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

Especially Green Valley Ranch! All the regulars over the last few years stopped winning and moved on to better places. Looser slots an video poker will bring them back

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Levine" <stuckinvegas@...> wrote:

Since the slowdown, they've lowered the room rates, some show prices, and maybe some food and beverage. These are all the things they've been raising over the last 6 years when things were booming. The only thin that they have NOT brought back to ACCEPTABLE LEVELS are the payouts on the slots and table games.

Can we ever expect to get these payouts back to former levels, or are the casinos caught in a "Catch-22" where they can't raise the payouts without the "fear" of lowering their bottom line. But if they do raise their payouts, they just might see a lot more customers return to their casino which would really add to their bottom line. Let's see which hotel steps it up and raises their payouts, and which hotel/casinos follow. What we need is another Reserve with thier highest payouts on every machine.

#4

REPLY: I'm currently arranging a 3-week LV stay during the World Series of Poker. Three observations: (1) Room rates are WAY down. (2) Comps are WAY down, i.e., harder to get via hosts, at least for quarter-to-dollar play. (3) Per VPFree and other sources, VP schedules are getting worse every day.

A year or so ago, someone on this site (I can't recall the name ot I'd give due credit) predicted that the casinos' first reaction to the economic meltdown would be to tighten up [true], but that their second move would be to make very nice offers to middling-to-big players [also true]. Unfortunately for VP-playing comp seekers, the casinos now appear to have entered a Phase 3 in which they'll essentially give the rooms away but refuse to offer customers a fair gamble.

I estimate that I've stayed 400+ nights in Vegas over the past 15 years without paying for a room (or for any food unless severe hunger demanded it). That streak will end on this trip. Two of us will split rooms at Harrah's @$32 and the IP @$22, but neither place has any playable games. Therefore, we'll pay for the rooms, play live poker at convenient times, and read books or watch sports during the hours when we would have played VP. Time will tell how many customers are smart enough to make lots of money and ignorant or addicted enough to give it away playing horrible house games.

The GMan

PS: While I'm here, I want to add myself to the long list of others who have praised Skip Hughes. He fully deserevs his place in the VP Hall of Fame.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Levine" <stuckinvegas@...> wrote:

Since the slowdown, they've lowered the room rates, some show prices, and maybe some food and beverage. [REMAINDER OF ORIGINAL POST DELETED]

#5

Like yourself, I've probably been to Vegas at least that many times, and I'm comped all the time also.

But sometimes I wonder if you're not better off paying for the room and playing wherever you want, whenever you want, and have no responsibility of playing at one particular casino that's comping you.

But then again, it's still nice to get those free room offers as well as free slot and video poker tournament invites.

What gets me about the lower payouts is that the casinos years ago were making plenty of money with the higher payouts. It's total greed that keeps these payouts low. I wonder what it's going to take to get the payouts back to what they used to be.

#6

A flux capacitor.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Levine" <stuckinvegas@...> wrote:

I wonder what it's going to take to get the payouts back to what they > used to be.

#7

The issue was the corporate imperative to not only
be profitable, but consistently more profitable
year over year. If you're not growing top and bottom
line profits year over year, it's seen as a
significant negative to a publicly traded company.
This industry like to discuss EBIDA in detail, but I
still think my statement is true. I believe this to
be the motivator for Harrah's and MGM to offer such
bad games. Of course now both of those entities
(one's no longer publicly traded) are locked in a
fight for survival. I'm skeptical you'll ever see
strip properties offer positive games again. Maybe a
prolonged downturn will change that but I really doubt
it. Perhaps if hotels are still laying people off a
year from now they'll want to compete for low-rollers
but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I also would not be so completely certain that a
more generous game ultimately generates more profit
for strip-like properties. We don't really have the
data and frankly they do. The 5000 people on this
board may have a certain mindset, but that does not
mean the 30+ million people a year who visit Vegas
have the same mindset.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Levine" <stuckinvegas@...> wrote:

{big snip}
What gets me about the lower payouts is that the
casinos years ago were making plenty of money
with the higher payouts. It's total greed that
keeps these payouts low. I wonder what it's going
to take to get the payouts back to what they used
to be.

#8

With a lot of casino player clubs increasing or having increased coin-in requirements to earn points on positive games, can someone tell me who currently has the best player club benefits for positive games? I'd be interested in hearing some discussion on this... Thanks!

#9

I'd say that Sam' Town has one of the better slot clubs for positive games. It might be $2 for every point, but that's what most casinos are doing now. But a big + is that they give you cash back at 1000 pt.s = $1 or 600 pts = $1 in food comps. Some say the South Point is the best.