vpFREE2 Forums

When More is Less

#1

Forgive me for commenting on what is now an old thread, but having
just recently returned from 12 days in Vegas, I am only now getting
caught up with my reading.

I am referring to the discussion on W2Gs and the $1200 limit

We are Canadians, and are thus subject to the 30% witholding tax
imposed on non-residents. During our recent trip, my wife was
fortunate enough to hit a Royal Flush on the fullpay deuces
progressive at the Palms. Had she done so when we first sat down,
when the progressive was around $1185, she would have received that
$1185.

However, since the progressive had increased to $1227 by the time she
struck gold, she actually received only $859 (more turned into less).

Out tax laws are different from those in the US. Gambling winnings
are not considered income, and are not taxed at all. I understand
that we will be able to recover the withheld amount, but it will take
some effort on our part.

It's irritating to have to go to that effort. But what is extremely
more irritating is the thought expressed in one post(#22940)in the
W2G thread that the 30% is witheld to avoid future difficulty in
collecting tax owing.

We travel to the US as tourists. We pay money to US airlines,
hotels, restaurants, tourist attractions, taxis, etc. We do our
little bit to support the US economy. We impose nothing on social nor
other services, and I find it repugnant that someone would suggest
that we owe taxes just because we were lucky enough to hit a small
jackpot.

End of rant. I feel better already for having gotten that off my
chest.

#2

Hi, I am new to the group and just happened to read about your
woes. I can tell you it is not difficult for you to get your
withholdings back cause the only income you have is the gambling
income. Just get a 1040 (try an EZ) off the net (IRS website) and
fill it in. It should take you five minutes or less with name etc,
income (from U.S. sources = 1200 and change) equals taxable income.
Tax on income = 0 and amount withheld would equal your refund.

I agree it is a pain, but it is not too hard, you will see.

I'll help you if you need it. I go to Vegas a lot also and have lots
of Canadian friends (who mostly loose it seems).

Good luck.

Forgive me for commenting on what is now an old thread, but having
just recently returned from 12 days in Vegas, I am only now

getting

caught up with my reading.

I am referring to the discussion on W2Gs and the $1200 limit

We are Canadians, and are thus subject to the 30% witholding tax
imposed on non-residents. During our recent trip, my wife was
fortunate enough to hit a Royal Flush on the fullpay deuces
progressive at the Palms. Had she done so when we first sat down,
when the progressive was around $1185, she would have received

that

$1185.

However, since the progressive had increased to $1227 by the time

she

struck gold, she actually received only $859 (more turned into

less).

Out tax laws are different from those in the US. Gambling winnings
are not considered income, and are not taxed at all. I understand
that we will be able to recover the withheld amount, but it will

take

some effort on our part.

It's irritating to have to go to that effort. But what is

extremely

more irritating is the thought expressed in one post(#22940)in the
W2G thread that the 30% is witheld to avoid future difficulty in
collecting tax owing.

We travel to the US as tourists. We pay money to US airlines,
hotels, restaurants, tourist attractions, taxis, etc. We do our
little bit to support the US economy. We impose nothing on social

nor

···

- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "neilemb" <nembree@a...> wrote:

other services, and I find it repugnant that someone would suggest
that we owe taxes just because we were lucky enough to hit a small
jackpot.

End of rant. I feel better already for having gotten that off my
chest.

#3

Maybe so, but ONLY after you've applied for and received a US
taxpayer id number.

For this you have to make a trip to the nearest US consulate with
your passport, etc, etc.

···

--- pid0001 <pid0001@yahoo.com> wrote:

I can tell you it is not difficult for you to get your
withholdings back cause the only income you have is the gambling
income. Just get a 1040 (try an EZ) off the net (IRS website) and
fill it in. It should take you five minutes or less with name etc,

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#4

pid0001 wrote:
> I can tell you it is not difficult for you to get your
> withholdings back cause the only income you have is the gambling
> income. Just get a 1040 (try an EZ) off the net (IRS website) and
> fill it in. It should take you five minutes or less with name
> etc,

Brian Lavoie replied:

···

Maybe so, but ONLY after you've applied for and received a US
taxpayer id number.

For this you have to make a trip to the nearest US consulate with
your passport, etc, etc.

------

I'll qualify my reply by saying that I have no experience whatsoever
in this area ... however, all indications are that you can mail the
W-7 application for a TIN (taxpayer id no.), even if you are a foreign
national.

See the instructions that are included in the PDF link below for Form
W-7 for more details.

- Harry

----------

IRS FAQ from the website:
http://www.irs.gov/faqs/page/0,,id=15934,00.html

I won money at a Las Vegas casino and my winnings were subject to a
30% withholding tax. I am a Canadian citizen. How can I get the
withholding tax back?

Generally, you must file a tax return to claim a refund of
withholding. Gambling winnings by nonresidents of the U.S. are taxed
at a flat 30% tax rate. However, under the U.S./Canada Tax Treaty,
residents of Canada may claim gambling losses, but only to the extent
of gambling winnings. You should report both your total gambling
winnings and your total gambling losses on page 4 of Form 1040NR
(PDF), U.S. Nonresident Alien Income Tax Return on the dotted portion
of line 79. If you have net gambling winnings (after offsetting your
total losses against your total winnings), you should include this net
amount on line 79, column (d) of the Form 1040NR. You should also
attach a copy of the Form 1042-S, Foreign Person's U.S. Source Income
Subject to Withholding, showing the taxes withheld to your Form 1040NR.

A diary of your losses should be kept for your records.

To file a Form 1040NR you must have a valid identification number. For
most people this is a social security number (SSN). However, if you do
not have and cannot obtain a SSN you may use an Individual Taxpayer
Identification Number (ITIN). If you do not have an ITIN you may apply
by filing Form W-7 (PDF), Application for IRS Individual Taxpayer
Identification Number. Along with the completed Form W-7, you must
submit document that verify both your identity, that is, contain your
name and a photography, and your foreign status. If you have one
document that verifies both, such as a passport, then one document is
enough. You may, however, have to provide a combination of documents,
for this purpose.

References:

    * Publication 515 (PDF), Withholding of Tax on Nonresident Aliens
and Foreign Corporations Publication
    * Publication 519 (PDF), U.S. Tax Guide for Aliens
    * Publication 597 (PDF), Information on the United States-Canada
Income Tax Treaty
    * Publication 901 (PDF), U.S. Tax Treaties
    * Form W-7 (PDF), IRS Application for Individual Taxpayer
Identification Number
    * Form 1040NR (PDF), U.S. Nonresident Income Tax Return
    * Publication 1915 (PDF), Understanding Your IRS Individual
Taxpayer Identification Number

#5

Footnote on my comments to:

> For this you have to make a trip to the nearest US consulate with
> your passport, etc, etc.

A certified/notorized copy of the required documents is sufficient for
you to make a mail application.

The links for the IRS forms inserted into my reply did not carry over
to the post. Link to the IRS FAQ (using the link I included) and
you'll be able to download Form W-7 and 1040NR PDFs from that webpage.

- H.

#6

I applied for mine on a trip to Las Vegas a couple of years ago. You can go to any IRS office in the U.S.
The forms can be printed out from the IRS web site.
The number is called an "Individual Taxpayer Identification Number" "ITIN" for short.

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Brian Lavoie
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 5:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: When More is Less

  --- pid0001 <pid0001@yahoo.com> wrote:
  > I can tell you it is not difficult for you to get your
  > withholdings back cause the only income you have is the gambling
  > income. Just get a 1040 (try an EZ) off the net (IRS website) and
  > fill it in. It should take you five minutes or less with name etc,
  >

  Maybe so, but ONLY after you've applied for and received a US
  taxpayer id number.

  For this you have to make a trip to the nearest US consulate with
  your passport, etc, etc.

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#7

We travel to the US as tourists. We pay money to US airlines,
hotels, restaurants, tourist attractions, taxis, etc. We do our
little bit to support the US economy. We impose nothing on social

nor

other services, and I find it repugnant that someone would suggest
that we owe taxes just because we were lucky enough to hit a small
jackpot.

Perhaps if you considered it a bit more you'd realize that even
tourists utilize some level of services that are paid for by US
income taxes. I'm no expert but I suspect some portion of income tax
dollars make their way into airports, air traffic controllers,
streets/highways, sidewalks, crosswalks, police and fire protection,
etc. But that's besides the point because tourists shouldn't have to
pay US income tax.

However since there are some types of resident aliens who are
required to pay US income taxes, the alternative is to ask the casino
to determine whether you are a tourist, or a resident alien, (or any
of a number of status' for non-US citizens). I can hardly imagine
how a casino could accomplish that and wonder if it wouldn't be worse
than having the tax withheld and, (with some work), then refunded.

You should direct your repugnancy towards the IRS. That's what we
do, (not that it does us any good).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "neilemb" <nembree@a...> wrote:

#8

A 1040NR form is needed for NRA's.
Non Resident Aliens.
An ITIN is also required "Individual Taxpayer Identification Number"

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: pid0001
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 10:52 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: When More is Less

  Hi, I am new to the group and just happened to read about your
  woes. I can tell you it is not difficult for you to get your
  withholdings back cause the only income you have is the gambling
  income. Just get a 1040 (try an EZ) off the net (IRS website) and
  fill it in. It should take you five minutes or less with name etc,
  income (from U.S. sources = 1200 and change) equals taxable income.
  Tax on income = 0 and amount withheld would equal your refund.

  I agree it is a pain, but it is not too hard, you will see.

  I'll help you if you need it. I go to Vegas a lot also and have lots
  of Canadian friends (who mostly loose it seems).

  Good luck.

  - In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "neilemb" <nembree@a...> wrote:
  > Forgive me for commenting on what is now an old thread, but having
  > just recently returned from 12 days in Vegas, I am only now
  getting
  > caught up with my reading.
  >
  > I am referring to the discussion on W2Gs and the $1200 limit
  >
  > We are Canadians, and are thus subject to the 30% witholding tax
  > imposed on non-residents. During our recent trip, my wife was
  > fortunate enough to hit a Royal Flush on the fullpay deuces
  > progressive at the Palms. Had she done so when we first sat down,
  > when the progressive was around $1185, she would have received
  that
  > $1185.
  >
  > However, since the progressive had increased to $1227 by the time
  she
  > struck gold, she actually received only $859 (more turned into
  less).
  >
  > Out tax laws are different from those in the US. Gambling winnings
  > are not considered income, and are not taxed at all. I understand
  > that we will be able to recover the withheld amount, but it will
  take
  > some effort on our part.
  >
  > It's irritating to have to go to that effort. But what is
  extremely
  > more irritating is the thought expressed in one post(#22940)in the
  > W2G thread that the 30% is witheld to avoid future difficulty in
  > collecting tax owing.
  >
  > We travel to the US as tourists. We pay money to US airlines,
  > hotels, restaurants, tourist attractions, taxis, etc. We do our
  > little bit to support the US economy. We impose nothing on social
  nor
  > other services, and I find it repugnant that someone would suggest
  > that we owe taxes just because we were lucky enough to hit a small
  > jackpot.
  >
  > End of rant. I feel better already for having gotten that off my
  > chest.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]