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When loosing turns into a win

A few days ago we were playing 25 cent Bonus VP when I was dealt a hand that included an Ace and a suited 10. I held the Ace and discarded the 10 just as I was supposed to. Well you can guess what happened, the other three showed up on the draw. This is the second time I have lost a royal for not holding the 10.

Fast forward two days, Lucky Lucy is playing $1 Bonus when she gets the same hand. "I don't care what BD and Winpoker says, I am holding the 10." So she did and got the other three for a nice $4K royal. She said if I hadn't lost the 25 cent royal a couple days earlier, she would not have held the 10 and would have missed this one.

Rick & LL

Rick & LL -
If you had taken a fraction of a second to hold the 10 in the .25 hand you most certainly would have been given different draw cards, said to yourself "Why did I hold the ten?", and as a result the rest of your session would have been different.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "baronthegreat" <luckylucy39@...> wrote:

A few days ago we were playing 25 cent Bonus VP when I was dealt a hand that included an Ace and a suited 10. I held the Ace and discarded the 10 just as I was supposed to. Well you can guess what happened, the other three showed up on the draw. This is the second time I have lost a royal for not holding the 10.

Fast forward two days, Lucky Lucy is playing $1 Bonus when she gets the same hand. "I don't care what BD and Winpoker says, I am holding the 10." So she did and got the other three for a nice $4K royal. She said if I hadn't lost the 25 cent royal a couple days earlier, she would not have held the 10 and would have missed this one.

Rick & LL

Is that the way VP machines work? I know slots constantly generate "outcomes" and select one when the spin button is pressed. But does VP work the same way? Or are 10 cards selected when the deal button is pressed? Are the "cards" taken off the top of the stack one at a time or 10 dealt, 5 face up and 5 face down? Anyone know for sure?

Rick

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "maclarenv12" <ahduff@...> wrote:

Rick & LL -
If you had taken a fraction of a second to hold the 10 in the .25 hand you most certainly would have been given different draw cards, said to yourself "Why did I hold the ten?", and as a result the rest of your session would have been different.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "baronthegreat" <luckylucy39@> wrote:
>
> A few days ago we were playing 25 cent Bonus VP when I was dealt a hand that included an Ace and a suited 10. I held the Ace and discarded the 10 just as I was supposed to. Well you can guess what happened, the other three showed up on the draw. This is the second time I have lost a royal for not holding the 10.
>
> Fast forward two days, Lucky Lucy is playing $1 Bonus when she gets the same hand. "I don't care what BD and Winpoker says, I am holding the 10." So she did and got the other three for a nice $4K royal. She said if I hadn't lost the 25 cent royal a couple days earlier, she would not have held the 10 and would have missed this one.
>
> Rick & LL
>

The RNG in a class III machine in constantly shuffling. When you hit the deal button the top 5 cards are displayed. The other 47 (in a no joker game) are again continually shuffled until you hit the draw button at which time the "top" 1-5 cards are again displayed depending on how many were discarded.

Remember ..... life is only what you make it. Never settle for second best.

Bill

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To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: luckylucy39@earthlink.net
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:26:11 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] How do VP machines work? Was -- When loosing turns into a win

      Is that the way VP machines work? I know slots constantly generate "outcomes" and select one when the spin button is pressed. But does VP work the same way? Or are 10 cards selected when the deal button is pressed? Are the "cards" taken off the top of the stack one at a time or 10 dealt, 5 face up and 5 face down? Anyone know for sure?

Rick

>

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VP machines used to deal 10 cards at once, but some smart groups decompiled the random number generator chip, and figured out where a machine was in the sequence to determine their play.

After that "cool" strategy (which casinos might call a scam), Nevada has a "recommendation" that all VP machines deal 5 cards at a time. I don't think any other countries or states have the recommendation.

So you may run across some machines which deal 10 cards at a time.

Computer-random is NOT real randomness. Cards will tend to be a little more streaky than real randomness. It sometimes causes big problems in using computers for analysis, when the RNG interacts badly with the area someone is studying.

In VP, I've noticed in multi-line flush draws that I tend to get most of my flushes or none of my flushes. Sometimes this stinks when I lose, but I've gotten some very good hands this way too.

For simple things like "how often do you throw away a 2 and get another 2", the RNG probably will generate random-like results (e.g. 3/47). If a RNG was bad at the 1st level, the algorithm would be thrown out (e.g. mean & variance should be the same as a truly-random mean & variance).

But for correlation events like multi-line draws, I would bet that RNGs do not have the same correlations as true randomness. RNGs are probably more "streaky". It might be fun if someone who decompiled a RNG could analyze how multi-line holds might be different in the face of the real RNG algorithms.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "baronthegreat" <luckylucy39@...> wrote:

Is that the way VP machines work? I know slots constantly generate "outcomes" and select one when the spin button is pressed. But does VP work the same way? Or are 10 cards selected when the deal button is pressed? Are the "cards" taken off the top of the stack one at a time or 10 dealt, 5 face up and 5 face down? Anyone know for sure?

A March 2006 article (With Video Poker, What You See Is What You Get)in Casino City Times by John Brokopp interviews John Daley who was (is) IGT's Director of Video Poker. Mr Daley confirmed how video poker machines deal. As others have stated the remaining cards after the initial deal continue to be shuffled. The article can be found at:

http://brokopp.casinocitytimes.com/article/with-video-poker-what-you-see-is-what-you-get-25354

Don

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "baronthegreat" <luckylucy39@...> wrote:

Is that the way VP machines work? I know slots constantly generate "outcomes" and select one when the spin button is pressed. But does VP work the same way? Or are 10 cards selected when the deal button is pressed? Are the "cards" taken off the top of the stack one at a time or 10 dealt, 5 face up and 5 face down? Anyone know for sure?

There are a couple of things misleading in this article. The official Nevada gaming regulations do not specify how the programming will work. However, they will not approve any machines unless the lab verifies that the game works this way. Also, he glosses over the important fact that the program does not deal the first 5 cards as a batch but selects a pseudo-random number and displays the card that number corresponds to. Then it selects another number and, if it is not already in use, displays that one. It is true that it does not keep generating extra numbers until it has displayed 5 cards. Then it goes back into cycling until the draw button is pressed.

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At 09:29 AM 1/22/2010, you wrote:

Here's John Robison's answer from 2008.

http://robison.casinocitytimes.com/article/what-are-the-odds-of-being-dealt-a-royal-flush?-43374
http://ff.im/b6IC8

What Are the Odds of Being Dealt a Royal Flush? [John Robison, Casino City Times - 8/23/08]