vpFREE2 Forums

When is Bonus poker not bonus poker?

#1

I got fooled on one of the dozens of machines I played on a recent visit to Silver
Legacy in Reno.

On one bank of 10 new GameMakers, in particular the bank right next to the SL
sports book, I played some bonus poker. These machines have been swapped out
earlier this year from standard single line 50c 8/5 Bonus poker coin-droppers into
new, fast, TITO, Multi-Game, Multi-Denom GameMakers. YAY! This is a nice location,
if there are times you want to substitute the cacophony of surrounding slot jingles for
the more familiar din of major league sports or horse race announsers and a view of
dozens of TVs. Plus you get to play fast video poker. Also, some machines have new
(experimental?) background colors: red, green, lavendar and there may have even
been a brighter pink or a light blue, in addition to the standard deep blue. All but the
red were playable for me, the red cards blended with the red background, and
caused me a couple of missed flush draw hold opportunities. Just having to slow
down to double check suits was enough reason for me to avoid the red screen
machine.

That's the good news. The denoms are 25c/50c/$1. The best game might have been
9/6 JoB. A lot of the new machines at Silver have added (albeit all short-pay versions)
Aces & Faces, One-eyed jacks, Dbl A &F, TB+, Dbl Deuces, and even more. I can't
remember which ones this bank had. I know there is 9/6 DDB.

PLUS I thought I was playing 8/5 Bonus poker.

On the 2nd evening onf my 4-day trip, I happened to stare at the paytable a bit
longer than the first look I took, which was just to confirm the 8/5. Something about
the number of entries in the table got me looking, soon in disbelief. The game is
labelled "Bonus Poker", but the paytable has only one line entry for quads: 30 (for one
cred bet)...up to 150 (for 5 cred bet) all the way to 1500 (for the max 50 cred bet.)

For ANY quads.
1-2-3-4-5-8-30-50-800 is the paytable.

It is essentially 8/5 Jacks or Better with 30-1 for quads in lieu of the standard 25-1.
What the .......?

I couldn't find this paytable on any of the vpFree paytables nor the links to wiz of
odds nor 5-card's site to look up the EV. As a mac guy, I don't have the right
configuration to run winPoker nor frugal, nor VPSM to determine the EV nor the
strategy change (if any). ( I know Paymar's new software has a mac version, but I
haven't got it yet).
Has this weird "Bonus" paytable been "outed" in the vp world? Seen anywhere else?
Anybody wanna run the EV calc? <My guess: 98.8%> Can I claim discovery on it? Is
calling it Bonus poker downright deceptive? I'm somewhat embarrassed that I put in
at least a half-hour of play before I noticed. I must not have hit any quads.

Any how, no biggie, I still had a great trip (see TR on vpFree_Reno, msg 461).
Thanks for comments.

~MARK

#2

I got fooled on one of the dozens of machines I played on a recent
visit to Silver Legacy in Reno...........
                      <snip>

The game is labelled "Bonus Poker", but the paytable has only one line
entry for quads: 30 (for one cred bet)...up to 150 (for 5 cred bet)
all the way to 1500 (for the max 50 cred bet.) For ANY quads. 1-2-3-4-
5-8-30-50-800 is the paytable. It is essentially 8/5 Jacks or Better
with 30-1 for quads in lieu of the standard 25-1.
                        <snip>

Has this weird "Bonus" paytable been "outed" in the vp world? Seen
anywhere else? Anybody wanna run the EV calc? <My guess: 98.8%> Can I
claim discovery on it? Is calling it Bonus poker downright
deceptive?
  ~MARK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark_my_words_again@y...> wrote:

===========================

Hi Mark,

I've seen this dog at an Indian Casino in AZ. I did notice the 30
coin pay for ANY quad and the absence of 40/80 coins for bonus quads,
so I refrained from playing it (along with the rest of their
inventory, which was equally poor). I'm a lirtle surprized that the
SL would have this in their inventory.

BTW, did you notice the pay sched. for Aces/Faces and DBLAces/Faces? I
like those games if they're FP. A/F is the same pay as BP, with quad
JQKA being the bonus quads, and DA/F is the same pay as 9/7DB, with
JQKA as bonus quads.

Thanks for your input.

Regards,

Babe

#3

For "Bonus Poker" with paytable 1-2-3-4-5-8-30-50-800, Winpoker says: 98.4799% w/ variance 19.95.

Mark wrote:

···

PLUS I thought I was playing 8/5 Bonus poker.

On the 2nd evening onf my 4-day trip, I happened to stare at the paytable a bit
longer than the first look I took, which was just to confirm the 8/5. Something about
the number of entries in the table got me looking, soon in disbelief. The game is
labelled "Bonus Poker", but the paytable has only one line entry for quads: 30 (for one
cred bet)...up to 150 (for 5 cred bet) all the way to 1500 (for the max 50 cred bet.)

For ANY quads.
1-2-3-4-5-8-30-50-800 is the paytable.

It is essentially 8/5 Jacks or Better with 30-1 for quads in lieu of the standard 25-1.
What the .......?

I couldn't find this paytable on any of the vpFree paytables nor the links to wiz of
odds nor 5-card's site to look up the EV. As a mac guy, I don't have the right
configuration to run winPoker nor frugal, nor VPSM to determine the EV nor the
strategy change (if any). ( I know Paymar's new software has a mac version, but I
haven't got it yet).
Has this weird "Bonus" paytable been "outed" in the vp world? Seen anywhere else?
Anybody wanna run the EV calc? <My guess: 98.8%> Can I claim discovery on it? Is
calling it Bonus poker downright deceptive? I'm somewhat embarrassed that I put in
at least a half-hour of play before I noticed. I must not have hit any quads.

#4

The supposidly have these as progressive bar tops at MSS.-Russ

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark_my_words_again@y...>

wrote:

I got fooled on one of the dozens of machines I played on a recent
visit to Silver Legacy in Reno...........
                      <snip>

The game is labelled "Bonus Poker", but the paytable has only one

line

entry for quads: 30 (for one cred bet)...up to 150 (for 5 cred

bet)

all the way to 1500 (for the max 50 cred bet.) For ANY quads. 1-2-

3-4-

5-8-30-50-800 is the paytable. It is essentially 8/5 Jacks or

Better

with 30-1 for quads in lieu of the standard 25-1.
                        <snip>

Has this weird "Bonus" paytable been "outed" in the vp world? Seen
anywhere else? Anybody wanna run the EV calc? <My guess: 98.8%>

Can I

claim discovery on it? Is calling it Bonus poker downright
deceptive?
  ~MARK

===========================

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Mark,

I've seen this dog at an Indian Casino in AZ. I did notice the 30
coin pay for ANY quad and the absence of 40/80 coins for bonus

quads,

so I refrained from playing it (along with the rest of their
inventory, which was equally poor). I'm a lirtle surprized that

the

SL would have this in their inventory.

BTW, did you notice the pay sched. for Aces/Faces and

DBLAces/Faces? I

like those games if they're FP. A/F is the same pay as BP, with

quad

···

JQKA being the bonus quads, and DA/F is the same pay as 9/7DB, with
JQKA as bonus quads.

Thanks for your input.

Regards,

Babe

#5

From: "Mark" <mark_my_words_again@yahoo.com>
I couldn't find this paytable on any of the vpFree paytables nor the links to wiz of
odds nor 5-card's site to look up the EV. As a mac guy, I don't have the right
configuration to run winPoker nor frugal, nor VPSM to determine the EV nor the
strategy change (if any). ( I know Paymar's new software has a mac version, but I
haven't got it yet).
Has this weird "Bonus" paytable been "outed" in the vp world? Seen anywhere else?
Anybody wanna run the EV calc? <My guess: 98.8%> Can I claim discovery on it? Is
calling it Bonus poker downright deceptive? I'm somewhat embarrassed that I put in
at least a half-hour of play before I noticed. I must not have hit any quads.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

These sound like the same machine that msvpfree report as the MSS bartops. Sneaky indeed!

None the less Mark, I am amazed that you didn't hit a royal on it....(-;

SK

#6

you could have used:
http://wizardofodds.com/videopoker/analyzer/CindyProg.html
or estimate:
every point change in full houses, flushes, or straights is 1.1%
every 4 point change in quads is 1%
so:
8/5 instead of 9/6: -2.2%
30 instead of 25: +1.25%
total: 99.5 (fp 9/6 return) -2.2% +1.25% = 98.6%

PLUS I thought I was playing 8/5 Bonus poker.

On the 2nd evening onf my 4-day trip, I happened to stare at the

paytable a bit

longer than the first look I took, which was just to confirm the

8/5. Something about

the number of entries in the table got me looking, soon in

disbelief. The game is

labelled "Bonus Poker", but the paytable has only one line entry for

quads: 30 (for one

cred bet)...up to 150 (for 5 cred bet) all the way to 1500 (for the

max 50 cred bet.)

For ANY quads.
1-2-3-4-5-8-30-50-800 is the paytable.

It is essentially 8/5 Jacks or Better with 30-1 for quads in lieu of

the standard 25-1.

What the .......?

I couldn't find this paytable on any of the vpFree paytables nor the

links to wiz of

odds nor 5-card's site to look up the EV. As a mac guy, I don't

have the right

configuration to run winPoker nor frugal, nor VPSM to determine the

EV nor the

strategy change (if any). ( I know Paymar's new software has a mac

version, but I

haven't got it yet).
Has this weird "Bonus" paytable been "outed" in the vp world? Seen

anywhere else?

Anybody wanna run the EV calc? <My guess: 98.8%> Can I claim

discovery on it? Is

calling it Bonus poker downright deceptive? I'm somewhat

embarrassed that I put in

at least a half-hour of play before I noticed. I must not have hit

any quads.

Any how, no biggie, I still had a great trip (see TR on vpFree_Reno,

msg 461).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark_my_words_again@y...> wrote:

Thanks for comments.

~MARK

#7

I don't usually scout games I don't play, but this one is on my "of interest" list.
I DID copy down the Ace & Face paytables:
  they ARE on many of the new machines, too bad not the best paytable:

A & F @ Silver: 800-50-80-40-25-7-5-4-3-2-1 = 98.10%EV
* found this "upstairs", 2nd floor somewhere, but I think it was this version elsewhere
on main casino floor also. in .25/.50/$1 denoms I THINK.

DBL A & F @ Silver: 800-50-160-80-50-9-6-5-3-1-1 = 97.97%EV .25/.50/$1

Others I wrote down & looked up:
Deuces bonus, in the MG/MD near Keno:
800-400-200-80-40-20-25-13-4-3-2-1-1 = 98.80%EV

TPL BONUS Plus 800-100-240-120-50-8-5-4-3-1-1 = 98.16%EV

ONE-eyed Jacks 800-150-75-50-15-5-3-2-1-1 = 98.96%EV

Slim pickins in the fancy bonus game world.

~MARK

--- russwin1 wrote:

···

The supposidly have these as progressive bar tops at MSS.-Russ

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark_my_words_again@y...>
wrote:
> I got fooled on one of the dozens of machines I played on a recent
> visit to Silver Legacy in Reno...........
> <snip>
>
> The game is labelled "Bonus Poker", but the paytable has only one
line
> entry for quads: 30 (for one cred bet)...up to 150 (for 5 cred
bet)
> all the way to 1500 (for the max 50 cred bet.) For ANY quads. 1-2-
3-4-
> 5-8-30-50-800 is the paytable. It is essentially 8/5 Jacks or
Better
> with 30-1 for quads in lieu of the standard 25-1.
> <snip>
>
> Has this weird "Bonus" paytable been "outed" in the vp world? Seen
> anywhere else? Anybody wanna run the EV calc? <My guess: 98.8%>
Can I
> claim discovery on it? Is calling it Bonus poker downright
> deceptive?
> ~MARK
>
> ===========================
>
> BTW, did you notice the pay sched. for Aces/Faces and
DBLAces/Faces? I
> like those games if they're FP. A/F is the same pay as BP, with
quad
> JQKA being the bonus quads, and DA/F is the same pay as 9/7DB, with
> JQKA as bonus quads.
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Regards,
>
> Babe

#8

Well folks, I don't know if it's me, my computer, or Yahoo, but for
the 2nd day in a row, my message was posted while I was still deleting
parts of the original message. I apologize, but I'm not sure what is
causing this problem.

Mark, thanks for the SL pay tables. I knew that I could count on you
for the info. Unfortunately, this is a vastly inferior schedule, and
not playable for me.

The only places that I have seen full pay A&F is Binions in LV, and
all the Grand casinos in MI (Tunica, Biloxi & Gulfport). However,
with Harrah's (home of the worst vp in any regulated jurisdiction)
taking over the Grand Casinos, this play may be MIA now.

Fullpay DBA&F was also prevalent at the Grand Casinos, and also at the
Edgewater in Laughlin. Though very volatile, I LOVE this game. It's
lots of fun, as is DblJackpot, in the fullpay version: another very
game that is very dificult to find.

It's too bad that the SL, despite the vp manager telling one of our
members, that he was "striving for the BEST VP in Reno", has resorted
to so many garbage pay tables. It may be time for me to re-think
staying at the PEPP again.

Thanks for your answer!

Regards,

Babe

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark_my_words_again@y..wrote:

I don't usually scout games I don't play, but this one is on my "of
interest" list. I DID copy down the Ace & Face paytables: they ARE
on many of the new machines, too bad not the best paytable: A & F @
Silver: 800-50-80-40-25-7-5-4-3-2-1 = 98.10%EV * found
this "upstairs", 2nd floor somewhere, but I think it was this version
elsewhere on main casino floor also. in .25/.50/$1 denoms I THINK
DBL A & F @ Silver: 800-50-160-80-50-9-6-5-3-1-1 = 97.97%EV .25/.50/
$1

···

------------------------------------------------
BTW, did you notice the pay sched. for Aces/Faces and DBLAces/Faces?
I like those games if they're FP. A/F is the same pay as BP, with
quad JQKA being the bonus quads, and DA/F is the same pay as 9/7DB,
with JQKA as bonus quads..............