vpFREE2 Forums

When a few good plays remain in a sea of dreck

#1

I am continually suspicious when a given casino destroys 99% of its
decent games, but keeps one or two banks of "100% PAYBACK" alive.
What would be the logic? Either you hate positive VP (Coast) or you
don't (Fiestas). Other than as a lame excuse to continue to trumpet
that you offer "fullpay video poker" in your advertising, why even
bother? Or so I asked myself...

Twice last week I ran $100 through that lonely little group of FPDW
at Sunset. In each case the $100 was VACUUMED. I had several 15+ hand
losing streaks. The first time, I was $55 down before I got my first
four of a kind.

Arizona Chuckie's W: Four hours of quadless play on $ 10/7 DB yields
an $800 loss.

GVR: Five players, all playing fairly swiftly, play the .25 "Optimum
Play" FPDW from 12-5 PM straight without anyone hitting deuces or a
royal. Total losses exceed $1500. They return for five more hours of
play after dinner. The only difference in the result is that
aggregate losses are only $1300.

There have been a number of plays like this in the last month or so;
if in a casino which offers mostly crap, then the results have been
horrible even when playing so-called "good" machines. And yes, I KNOW-
--DON'T BOTHER TO POINT IT OUT---that the sample sizes in the events
described above, BY THEMSELVES, do not yield significant data. BUT--
and here is the crux of the problem--can we, as individuals,
accumulate a decent sample size to draw a valid conclusion about our
results? Especially without risking tens of thousands of dollars?

I'd like to hear other peoples' results on plays on "Islands in a Sea
of Dreck" machines.

(AND YES, VIRGINIA, I AM implying that payback percentages can be and
are altered on a regular basis. If you disagree with this, fine; but
let's not argue that point right now. Documented instances of casino
tampering with VP and slot machines number in the thousands. It
follows that undocumented (i.e., not caught) instances number in the
quadrillions (given the effectiveness of Gaming Control in catching
casino cheating, i.e. 100,000,000,000 to one odds of a conviction in
any particular case).

#2

mkl54321 wrote:

Arizona Chuckie's W: Four hours of quadless play on $ 10/7 DB yields

an $800 loss.<<<<<<

  Just guessing you probably can play a minimum of 600-800 hands per hour,
your loss of $800 was definitely ahead of what it could have been.
2400-3200 hands of quadless DB could easily yield a loss of $2K. Perhaps
that machine was biased in your favor! :slight_smile: (except on quads of course!)
  MKL, I give you credit for being consistent. The only difference is I
would have quit playing long ago if I felt as strongly as you do on this
issue. Hope you and your friends luck changes in the near future.

#3

While paranoia can be fun, today I was playing the ducks at Sunset and got ducks within about 5 minutes. And I got a set on the GVR optimum play slant-tops on Wednesday. And I got Aces on the same machine playing 50c DB about 15 minutes earlier.

Maybe the machine checks to see how you've been doing lately when you put your card in and adjusts the RNG appropriately.

···

I'd like to hear other peoples' results on plays on "Islands in a Sea
of Dreck" machines.

#4

can we, as individuals,

accumulate a decent sample size to draw a valid conclusion about our
results? Especially without risking tens of thousands of dollars?

I believe the answer is NO - it's gonna cost you to assume things are fair
and play out 1,000,000 hands of VP which is a large enough to draw your own
conclusions. I played 1,000,000 hands of "full pay" VP in Atlantic City
which is theory was 99% EV, but my final result figure was 89% with a loss
of over $40,000. I won't play there anymore cause I think its fixed and has
the same EV as slots.
PS - also played 1,000,000 hands of VP in Nevada where 100% theory = 100% EV
my experience.

regards...Tom

#5

I'd like to hear other peoples' results on plays on "Islands in a

Sea

of Dreck" machines.

Your losing streaks pale in contrast to the master (me). Monday at
GVR, went through $300 on FPDW while putting on a splendid total of
1497 points. Followed that up on Tuesday dropping $280 in 1305
points. Wednesday was a red letter day in that I got 3200 points for
my $300 offering.

On Thursday, got deuces on my FIRST hand (a first for me), followed
it up with another set twenty minutes later and a set of slutty ducks
twenty minutes after that.

Still shaking my head over the total absense of SF, 5K, and Wild
Royals though.

#6

The only thing wrong with GVR's machines is that I'm witnessing LOTS
of Royals but none of them are mine. I must say I had a streak last
month of getting 3 royals at GVR in a week. I have a friend that
beat that record this week. I watched him have two unbelievable
sessions last weekend cleaning 8k one morning and 9k the next in the
space of an hour. And, since I basically "live" at GVR I witness a
lot of wins. I also witness some very poor performances where no one
can get a full house, let alone a quad but I'm thinking that
everything evens out in the end.

#7

Eh?

     Mainstream manufacturer's machines??

     Nevada casinos???

     Don't think so...

gj

···

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, mkl54321 wrote:

let's not argue that point right now. Documented instances of casino
tampering with VP and slot machines number in the thousands.