vpFREE2 Forums

Wheel Poker

#1

> "ms. vpFae" <ms_vpfree_3@> wrote:
>
> Rampart Casino has the new IGT/Action Gaming Wheel
> Poker. It's standard 3/5 play video poker except
> that betting a 6th coin per hand allows you to
> spin a bonus wheel after getting a natural quad.
>
> They have twelve uprights between Addison's Lounge
> and table games in 5c/10c/25c/50c/$1. Paytables

are

> all under 99%.

"brumar_lv" <brumar_lv@...> wrote:

It sounds like the 99% is based only on the
paytable, and doesn't take into consideration the
6th coin. Is that correct? I suppose there is
no way to determine the overall payback.

You are correct that the 99% payback I mentioned is
for the standard 5-coin paytable and doesn't take into
consideration the 6th coin bet or the results of the
wheel spin.

···

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#2

Although I don't know the specifics of this machine generally these "extra coin" machines treat the bonus coin as a separate bet when presenting to Gaming. If it wasn't, one would have to know the expected value of the wheel spin. This would then be included in generating strategy for perfect play (remember you have incentive to get quads) which would then give an overall 6-coin return for the machine.

I suspect that this has not been done by IGT.

Bob, you have a close relationship with IGT. If you know (and trade secrets are not involved -- and as you know the par sheets are not trade secrets -- although there is some confidentiality regarding the specifics general procedures cannot be confidential) has anyone calculated the combined 6-coin return for these machines?

Bill

···

At 05:48 PM 12/16/2007, you wrote:

> > "ms. vpFae" <ms_vpfree_3@> wrote:
> >
> > Rampart Casino has the new IGT/Action Gaming Wheel
> > Poker. It's standard 3/5 play video poker except
> > that betting a 6th coin per hand allows you to
> > spin a bonus wheel after getting a natural quad.
> >
> > They have twelve uprights between Addison's Lounge
> > and table games in 5c/10c/25c/50c/$1. Paytables
are
> > all under 99%.

> "brumar_lv" <brumar_lv@...> wrote:
>
> It sounds like the 99% is based only on the
> paytable, and doesn't take into consideration the
> 6th coin. Is that correct? I suppose there is
> no way to determine the overall payback.

You are correct that the 99% payback I mentioned is
for the standard 5-coin paytable and doesn't take into
consideration the 6th coin bet or the results of the
wheel spin.

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#3

Although I don't know the specifics of this machine generally these
"extra coin" machines treat the bonus coin as a separate bet when
presenting to Gaming. If it wasn't, one would have to know the
expected value of the wheel spin. This would then be included in
generating strategy for perfect play (remember you have incentive

to

get quads) which would then give an overall 6-coin return for the

machine.

I checked it out today briefly, but didn't play. There are 11 bonus
levels, expressed in coins won: 100, 150, 200, 250, 300, 400, 500,
600, 800, 1000, and 2000.

My guess is the bonus level odds are inversly proportional to the
size of the bonus. That is, a 100 coin bonus is 20 times more likely
than a 2000 coin bonus.

One thing still unclear. What if you are playing 5 play and get a
dealt quad. Does that mean you get 5 bonuses? I doubt it, because
the "help" screens did not mention that possibility.

Also, the bonus is apparently the same regardless of the type of
quad. Quad Aces w/kicker has the same bonus as Quad 9s. So my gut
feel is its best to "play the game with the highest frequency of
quads", even if it has a slightly lower return. Its a complex
tradeoff between maximizing return versus maximizing quads.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:

#4

Which games have a "higher frequency of quads" than others, and can you give
me a couple of examples as to why? Thanks!

Also, has anyone seen this game anywhere else in Vegas?

···

From: brumar_lv <brumar_lv@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:18:13 -0000
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Wheel Poker

Also, the bonus is apparently the same regardless of the type of
quad. Quad Aces w/kicker has the same bonus as Quad 9s. So my gut
feel is its best to "play the game with the highest frequency of
quads", even if it has a slightly lower return. Its a complex
tradeoff between maximizing return versus maximizing quads.

#5

Nathan asked: Which games have a "higher frequency of quads" than
others, and can you give me a couple of examples as to why?

Although it is no good reason to play this particular game, lesser pay
schedules on Super Double Bonus receive more quads. For example, with
KK553 in 9/5 SDB you hold KK55, but in 8/5 or 7/5 you hold KK only.
Since KK converts into a quad about once every 360 tries, and KK55 NEVER
converts into a quad, this is an example of a game where quads occur at
a different rate. SDB is a special case because four Jacks, Queens, and
Kings return 600, so you go for them more often than you do in other
games.

Two games that return almost the same amount but have different quad
rates would be 9/7 DB (99.11%) and 8/5 Bonus (99.17%). You receive more
quad aces in the DB game because of hands like AA773. This is offset
somewhat by hands like Ah Kh 7h 5d 3c. In DB you hold AK7 (from which
you cannot receive a quad) and from Bonus Poker you hold AK (from which
you have 2 chances in 16,215 to end up with a quad.) But even though the
quad rate is different, advantage players will avoid both of these games
except under unusual slot club conditions.

Although I haven't studied the pay schedules on Wheel Poker yet, (I will
soon for a Strictly Slots article), I suspect that in non-wild games the
difference in quad cycles is minimal for most purposes. In this game, it
is likely that bonus adds approximately the same amount per game, which
will probably turn out to be around 0.2% given Action Gaming's patterns
in the past. Until you start seeing this game in a 9/6 Jacks (or better)
pay schedule, it will be a smart play to avoid it.

Bob Dancer

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