vpFREE2 Forums

Wheel........Of.........Fraud!

#1

1c. Re: Wheel........Of.........Fraud!
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 11:56 am ((PST))

Does seem like it's a violation of 14.040.2b:

"For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games,
the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in
a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that
symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other
gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in
a position in any game outcome must be constant."
http://gaming.nv.gov/stats_regs/reg14.pdf

The live gambling game is the Money Wheel or Big Six Wheel. Does seem
like the average customer would assume the Money Wheel is a random,
non-rigged spin, and they would likewise assume the Wheel of Fortune
is a random, non-rigged spin.

Just curious - is there any kind of "disclaimer" on the machine or its screens? I've never played it.

Does "for entertainment purposes only" automatically cover the casino as the machine being an exception to the "real game" simulation?

--BG

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#2

> 1c. Re: Wheel........Of.........Fraud!
> Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 11:56 am ((PST))
>
> Does seem like it's a violation of 14.040.2b:
>
> "For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling

games,

> the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element

appearing in

> a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of

that

> symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other
> gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol

appearing in

> a position in any game outcome must be constant."
> http://gaming.nv.gov/stats_regs/reg14.pdf
>
> The live gambling game is the Money Wheel or Big Six Wheel. Does

seem

> like the average customer would assume the Money Wheel is a

random,

> non-rigged spin, and they would likewise assume the Wheel of

Fortune

> is a random, non-rigged spin.
>

Just curious - is there any kind of "disclaimer" on the machine or

its screens? I've never played it.

Does "for entertainment purposes only" automatically cover the

casino as the machine being an exception to the "real game"
simulation?

Well, given that the game manufacturer, and the casinos that
purchase and present the game, are obviously able to totally ignore
the above regulation (whose application to the WOF slots, and its
making their existence illegal, could not be more clear), I doubt
that the casinos need to do anything at all to "cover" themselves in
this regard.

Nevada law is a sham; the casinos can do what they want; there is no
protection for the hapless gambler (and an actively adversarial
attitude toward the COMPETENT gambler).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, b.glazer@... wrote:

#3

Just curious - is there any kind of "disclaimer" on the machine or

its screens? I've never played it.

I haven't seen any. For example, they could state that even though the
wheel looks like the wheel on Wheel of Fortune and the Money Wheel as
seen at casinos, it is not a random spin and not all spots have an
equal chance of winning. But I've never seen anything remotely like that.

Does "for entertainment purposes only" automatically cover the

casino as the machine being an exception to the "real game" simulation?

I don't believe that means anything in Nevada and I've never seen it
in Nevada on a gaming device. The machine in question was approved by
the state of Nevada as a gaming device. In other states, that I'm
aware of, "for entertainment purposes only" means that you can't win
money, only carnival type stuff, like a big stuffed bear, etc.
Usually, "for entertainment purposes only" is used as a way to try to
get around regulations that prohibit gambling, the theory being that
if you can't win money then it's not really gambling.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, b.glazer@... wrote:

#4

years ago I used to play WOF all the time and won the $1000 and $500 more than I can count. They don't pay like that any more though. Now it is most times $25, $30 or $40. Never play any more and those machines are almost always emty. Makes you wonder if they are set different no??

b.glazer@att.net wrote: > 1c. Re: Wheel........Of.........Fraud!
> Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 11:56 am ((PST))
>
> Does seem like it's a violation of 14.040.2b:
>
> "For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games,
> the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in
> a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that
> symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other
> gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in
> a position in any game outcome must be constant."
> http://gaming.nv.gov/stats_regs/reg14.pdf
>
> The live gambling game is the Money Wheel or Big Six Wheel. Does seem
> like the average customer would assume the Money Wheel is a random,
> non-rigged spin, and they would likewise assume the Wheel of Fortune
> is a random, non-rigged spin.
>

Just curious - is there any kind of "disclaimer" on the machine or its screens? I've never played it.

Does "for entertainment purposes only" automatically cover the casino as the machine being an exception to the "real game" simulation?

--BG

···

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

The live gambling game is the Money Wheel or Big Six Wheel. Does seem
like the average customer would assume the Money Wheel is a random,
non-rigged spin, and they would likewise assume the Wheel of Fortune is
a random, non-rigged spin.

I think that anyone who looks at a WOF wheel and thinks it looks exactly
like a Big Six Wheel isn't very observant. What people on this thread
seem to be missing is that if it's exactly like a common gambling device
(such as a deck of cards or a pair of dice) then the results must be
consistent with that device. But if the device is NOT the same (and a
WOF wheel is NOT like a Big Six Wheel), then this rule doesn't apply.

If that rule somehow WAS ruled to be applicable, IGT would simply redo
the wheel so that if every spot had an equal chance, the results would

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

#6

Bob D wrote...

If that rule somehow WAS ruled to be applicable, IGT would simply redo
the wheel so that if every spot had an equal chance, the results would

Bob Dancer

BD cliffhanger?

Dennis
vp-connoisseur

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

OMFG! This is awesome! Bob and I agree actually on something!

It must be snowing in hell.

:slight_smile:

···

On 2/8/08, Bob Dancer <bdancer@compdance.com> wrote:

I think that anyone who looks at a WOF wheel and thinks it looks exactly
like a Big Six Wheel isn't very observant. What people on this thread
seem to be missing is that if it's exactly like a common gambling device
(such as a deck of cards or a pair of dice) then the results must be
consistent with that device. But if the device is NOT the same (and a
WOF wheel is NOT like a Big Six Wheel), then this rule doesn't apply.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

But then the game wouldn't win as much money. The average player
overvalues the wheel, because the average player thinks it's an
unweighted fair wheel spin, just like Big Six or the Money Wheel which
I have also seen called the "Wheel of Fortune". Also, all those "near
misses" (at one time a practice that the gaming board frowned on)
condition the average player to think that the next spin will hit the
big one.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@...> wrote:

If that rule somehow WAS ruled to be applicable, IGT would simply redo
the wheel so that if every spot had an equal chance, the results would