vpFREE2 Forums

Wheel........Of.........Fraud!

#1

I saw this game listed on the list from another thread of
the "Greatest Gaming Innovations of All Time". He mentioned how the
game has persisted (outliving hundreds of other slot games) because
it appeals to the slot player's psyche. Well, there's one aspect of
the game that is both a signal aspect of that and a salient
characteristic of casino marketing:

We know that 99% of casino marketing is based on fraud and
deception: make the player think he's getting something for nothing;
make him value something far more than reality should suggest;
misrepresent the true odds against him, the true nature of the games
he's playing, etc. etc. Well, WOF does all these things wonderfully,
simply via the VISUAL LIE of the bonus wheel. You see, the wheel is
divided into a number of "slots" (22, I think) with widely varying
payouts on them, from 25 coins to 1000. Which value actually comes
up is determined, not by the actual spin of the wheel, but by the
RNG of the machine, making the actual "spin" an irrelevant sham. The
RNG is biased extremely heavily toward the lower amounts (the two
lowest values, 25 and 30, come up half the time).

The net effect of this is to make the uninitiated gambler THINK that
he has a 1 in 22 chance of hitting the "1000" slot on every spin,
when in reality, his chances are about one in six billion (eight
billion at Harrah's-owned casinos). Casinos and slot manufacturers
might argue that the gambler is wrong to take the visual
representation of the Wheel of Fortune at face value, i.e., as an
actual spinning wheel. To counter that, I would argue that the
presentation of the wheel, the association of the game with the well-
known game show, and the sound effect of the "spinning" "wheel" all
reinforce that mistaken impression in the gambler's mind, and
therefore crosses the line into deliberate misrepresentation of the
game's characteristics, aka FRAUD.

Of course, I only mention this to agree on WOF's being a "great
gaming innovation". As we all know, casino fraud has been perfectly
legal in Nevada for decades.

#2

I contacted Gaming Control twice on this issue with no
response from them. Obviously they are aware of it
and don't have an issue with it.

Bill
Palms Moderator

--- tralfamidorgooglycrackers

···

<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@yahoo.com> wrote:

I saw this game listed on the list from another
thread of
the "Greatest Gaming Innovations of All Time". He
mentioned how the
game has persisted (outliving hundreds of other slot
games) because
it appeals to the slot player's psyche. Well,
there's one aspect of
the game that is both a signal aspect of that and a
salient
characteristic of casino marketing:

We know that 99% of casino marketing is based on
fraud and
deception: make the player think he's getting
something for nothing;
make him value something far more than reality
should suggest;
misrepresent the true odds against him, the true
nature of the games
he's playing, etc. etc. Well, WOF does all these
things wonderfully,
simply via the VISUAL LIE of the bonus wheel. You
see, the wheel is
divided into a number of "slots" (22, I think) with
widely varying
payouts on them, from 25 coins to 1000. Which value
actually comes
up is determined, not by the actual spin of the
wheel, but by the
RNG of the machine, making the actual "spin" an
irrelevant sham. The
RNG is biased extremely heavily toward the lower
amounts (the two
lowest values, 25 and 30, come up half the time).

The net effect of this is to make the uninitiated
gambler THINK that
he has a 1 in 22 chance of hitting the "1000" slot
on every spin,
when in reality, his chances are about one in six
billion (eight
billion at Harrah's-owned casinos). Casinos and slot
manufacturers
might argue that the gambler is wrong to take the
visual
representation of the Wheel of Fortune at face
value, i.e., as an
actual spinning wheel. To counter that, I would
argue that the
presentation of the wheel, the association of the
game with the well-
known game show, and the sound effect of the
"spinning" "wheel" all
reinforce that mistaken impression in the gambler's
mind, and
therefore crosses the line into deliberate
misrepresentation of the
game's characteristics, aka FRAUD.

Of course, I only mention this to agree on WOF's
being a "great
gaming innovation". As we all know, casino fraud has
been perfectly
legal in Nevada for decades.

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

#3

I agree with everything that has been said here.

However, I think that most conventional slot players are already
aware that the win loss decision has been made by the machine before
the wheels are done spinning or the display finishes changing. They
just don't care. They (mostly) realize that wheels/displays are for
entertainment only. In that respect, WOF is no better or worse than
any other.

I hardly ever play anything other that VP. However, when I play WOF
my SPIN button average seems to be higher than the averages quoted
below. In fact, my last spin at the Four Queens a few weeks ago was
for 1000 but I had an unfair advantage. My wife, who exudes an aura
of luck, was standing next to me when it happened. The bruises in my
arm where she grabbed me when it hit are almost gone. My right ear,
however, won't be the same after she screamed at the top of her lungs.

BTW, I'm sure that this must have been covered somewhere before but
this old geek learned something when he was a much younger geek as a
Computer Science major. The term "Random Number Generator" is a
contradiction. You can't generate random numbers because, then, they
wouldn't be random. You can, however, generate "Pseudo-Random"
numbers - numbers that exhibit the same randomness as actual random
numbers. Maybe the new designation should be pRNG?

OK, I'm anal, but with great references.

Joe

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:

I saw this game listed on the list from another thread of
the "Greatest Gaming Innovations of All Time". He mentioned how the
game has persisted (outliving hundreds of other slot games) because
it appeals to the slot player's psyche. Well, there's one aspect of
the game that is both a signal aspect of that and a salient
characteristic of casino marketing:

We know that 99% of casino marketing is based on fraud and
deception: make the player think he's getting something for

nothing;

make him value something far more than reality should suggest;
misrepresent the true odds against him, the true nature of the

games

he's playing, etc. etc. Well, WOF does all these things

wonderfully,

simply via the VISUAL LIE of the bonus wheel. You see, the wheel is
divided into a number of "slots" (22, I think) with widely varying
payouts on them, from 25 coins to 1000. Which value actually comes
up is determined, not by the actual spin of the wheel, but by the
RNG of the machine, making the actual "spin" an irrelevant sham.

The

RNG is biased extremely heavily toward the lower amounts (the two
lowest values, 25 and 30, come up half the time).

The net effect of this is to make the uninitiated gambler THINK

that

he has a 1 in 22 chance of hitting the "1000" slot on every spin,
when in reality, his chances are about one in six billion (eight
billion at Harrah's-owned casinos). Casinos and slot manufacturers
might argue that the gambler is wrong to take the visual
representation of the Wheel of Fortune at face value, i.e., as an
actual spinning wheel. To counter that, I would argue that the
presentation of the wheel, the association of the game with the

well-

···

known game show, and the sound effect of the "spinning" "wheel" all
reinforce that mistaken impression in the gambler's mind, and
therefore crosses the line into deliberate misrepresentation of the
game's characteristics, aka FRAUD.

Of course, I only mention this to agree on WOF's being a "great
gaming innovation". As we all know, casino fraud has been perfectly
legal in Nevada for decades.

#4

My point is that why would somebody think there is a
difference between the big wheel with $1, $2, $5, $10,
$20, Joker, and a casino logo on it and the wheel on
Wheel of Fortune. I have asked people I've watched
playing Wheel of Fortune and through my non-scientific
poll, everybody except one person has told me they
thought each slot had an equal opportunity of being
selected.

Does each slot on the wheel on Wheel of Fortune - the
game show have an equal opportunity of being selected?
Of course it does - so why wouldn't they think each
slot on the wheel on their slot machine had the same
chance of being selected.

Bill
Palms Moderator

···

--- joe_harkins_jr <joe_harkins_jr@yahoo.com> wrote:

I agree with everything that has been said here.

However, I think that most conventional slot players
are already
aware that the win loss decision has been made by
the machine before
the wheels are done spinning or the display finishes
changing. They
just don't care. They (mostly) realize that
wheels/displays are for
entertainment only. In that respect, WOF is no
better or worse than
any other.

I hardly ever play anything other that VP. However,
when I play WOF
my SPIN button average seems to be higher than the
averages quoted
below. In fact, my last spin at the Four Queens a
few weeks ago was
for 1000 but I had an unfair advantage. My wife,
who exudes an aura
of luck, was standing next to me when it happened.
The bruises in my
arm where she grabbed me when it hit are almost
gone. My right ear,
however, won't be the same after she screamed at the
top of her lungs.

BTW, I'm sure that this must have been covered
somewhere before but
this old geek learned something when he was a much
younger geek as a
Computer Science major. The term "Random Number
Generator" is a
contradiction. You can't generate random numbers
because, then, they
wouldn't be random. You can, however, generate
"Pseudo-Random"
numbers - numbers that exhibit the same randomness
as actual random
numbers. Maybe the new designation should be pRNG?

OK, I'm anal, but with great references.

Joe

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
"tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:
>
> I saw this game listed on the list from another
thread of
> the "Greatest Gaming Innovations of All Time". He
mentioned how the
> game has persisted (outliving hundreds of other
slot games) because
> it appeals to the slot player's psyche. Well,
there's one aspect of
> the game that is both a signal aspect of that and
a salient
> characteristic of casino marketing:
>
> We know that 99% of casino marketing is based on
fraud and
> deception: make the player think he's getting
something for
nothing;
> make him value something far more than reality
should suggest;
> misrepresent the true odds against him, the true
nature of the
games
> he's playing, etc. etc. Well, WOF does all these
things
wonderfully,
> simply via the VISUAL LIE of the bonus wheel. You
see, the wheel is
> divided into a number of "slots" (22, I think)
with widely varying
> payouts on them, from 25 coins to 1000. Which
value actually comes
> up is determined, not by the actual spin of the
wheel, but by the
> RNG of the machine, making the actual "spin" an
irrelevant sham.
The
> RNG is biased extremely heavily toward the lower
amounts (the two
> lowest values, 25 and 30, come up half the time).
>
> The net effect of this is to make the uninitiated
gambler THINK
that
> he has a 1 in 22 chance of hitting the "1000" slot
on every spin,
> when in reality, his chances are about one in six
billion (eight
> billion at Harrah's-owned casinos). Casinos and
slot manufacturers
> might argue that the gambler is wrong to take the
visual
> representation of the Wheel of Fortune at face
value, i.e., as an
> actual spinning wheel. To counter that, I would
argue that the
> presentation of the wheel, the association of the
game with the
well-
> known game show, and the sound effect of the
"spinning" "wheel" all
> reinforce that mistaken impression in the
gambler's mind, and
> therefore crosses the line into deliberate
misrepresentation of the
> game's characteristics, aka FRAUD.
>
> Of course, I only mention this to agree on WOF's
being a "great
> gaming innovation". As we all know, casino fraud
has been perfectly
> legal in Nevada for decades.
>

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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#5

Does seem like it's a violation of 14.040.2b:

"For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games,
the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in
a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that
symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other
gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in
a position in any game outcome must be constant."
http://gaming.nv.gov/stats_regs/reg14.pdf

The live gambling game is the Money Wheel or Big Six Wheel. Does seem
like the average customer would assume the Money Wheel is a random,
non-rigged spin, and they would likewise assume the Wheel of Fortune
is a random, non-rigged spin.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Wild Bill <wcimo@...> wrote:

I contacted Gaming Control twice on this issue with no
response from them. Obviously they are aware of it
and don't have an issue with it.

Bill
Palms Moderator

--- tralfamidorgooglycrackers
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:

> I saw this game listed on the list from another
> thread of
> the "Greatest Gaming Innovations of All Time". He
> mentioned how the
> game has persisted (outliving hundreds of other slot
> games) because
> it appeals to the slot player's psyche. Well,
> there's one aspect of
> the game that is both a signal aspect of that and a
> salient
> characteristic of casino marketing:
>
> We know that 99% of casino marketing is based on
> fraud and
> deception: make the player think he's getting
> something for nothing;
> make him value something far more than reality
> should suggest;
> misrepresent the true odds against him, the true
> nature of the games
> he's playing, etc. etc. Well, WOF does all these
> things wonderfully,
> simply via the VISUAL LIE of the bonus wheel. You
> see, the wheel is
> divided into a number of "slots" (22, I think) with
> widely varying
> payouts on them, from 25 coins to 1000. Which value
> actually comes
> up is determined, not by the actual spin of the
> wheel, but by the
> RNG of the machine, making the actual "spin" an
> irrelevant sham. The
> RNG is biased extremely heavily toward the lower
> amounts (the two
> lowest values, 25 and 30, come up half the time).
>
> The net effect of this is to make the uninitiated
> gambler THINK that
> he has a 1 in 22 chance of hitting the "1000" slot
> on every spin,
> when in reality, his chances are about one in six
> billion (eight
> billion at Harrah's-owned casinos). Casinos and slot
> manufacturers
> might argue that the gambler is wrong to take the
> visual
> representation of the Wheel of Fortune at face
> value, i.e., as an
> actual spinning wheel. To counter that, I would
> argue that the
> presentation of the wheel, the association of the
> game with the well-
> known game show, and the sound effect of the
> "spinning" "wheel" all
> reinforce that mistaken impression in the gambler's
> mind, and
> therefore crosses the line into deliberate
> misrepresentation of the
> game's characteristics, aka FRAUD.
>
> Of course, I only mention this to agree on WOF's
> being a "great
> gaming innovation". As we all know, casino fraud has
> been perfectly
> legal in Nevada for decades.
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________

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know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

#6

I feel the same way about the 'Slotto' slots. The balls that bounce around
are just for show. The game has a compartment with one of each of the award
balls and displays them at the whim of the RNG.

On the same subject, wouldn't reels on a slot also fall under this? With 20
symbols per reel, there would only be 8000 combos on a 3 reel game, and we
know that there are actually millions possible, via the virtual stop.

Rob

···

On Feb 7, 2008 2:56 PM, nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

  Does seem like it's a violation of 14.040.2b:

"For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games,
the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in
a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that
symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other
gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in
a position in any game outcome must be constant."
http://gaming.nv.gov/stats_regs/reg14.pdf

The live gambling game is the Money Wheel or Big Six Wheel. Does seem
like the average customer would assume the Money Wheel is a random,
non-rigged spin, and they would likewise assume the Wheel of Fortune
is a random, non-rigged spin.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>, Wild Bill
<wcimo@...> wrote:
>
> I contacted Gaming Control twice on this issue with no
> response from them. Obviously they are aware of it
> and don't have an issue with it.
>
> Bill
> Palms Moderator
>
> --- tralfamidorgooglycrackers
> <tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:
>
> > I saw this game listed on the list from another
> > thread of
> > the "Greatest Gaming Innovations of All Time". He
> > mentioned how the
> > game has persisted (outliving hundreds of other slot
> > games) because
> > it appeals to the slot player's psyche. Well,
> > there's one aspect of
> > the game that is both a signal aspect of that and a
> > salient
> > characteristic of casino marketing:
> >
> > We know that 99% of casino marketing is based on
> > fraud and
> > deception: make the player think he's getting
> > something for nothing;
> > make him value something far more than reality
> > should suggest;
> > misrepresent the true odds against him, the true
> > nature of the games
> > he's playing, etc. etc. Well, WOF does all these
> > things wonderfully,
> > simply via the VISUAL LIE of the bonus wheel. You
> > see, the wheel is
> > divided into a number of "slots" (22, I think) with
> > widely varying
> > payouts on them, from 25 coins to 1000. Which value
> > actually comes
> > up is determined, not by the actual spin of the
> > wheel, but by the
> > RNG of the machine, making the actual "spin" an
> > irrelevant sham. The
> > RNG is biased extremely heavily toward the lower
> > amounts (the two
> > lowest values, 25 and 30, come up half the time).
> >
> > The net effect of this is to make the uninitiated
> > gambler THINK that
> > he has a 1 in 22 chance of hitting the "1000" slot
> > on every spin,
> > when in reality, his chances are about one in six
> > billion (eight
> > billion at Harrah's-owned casinos). Casinos and slot
> > manufacturers
> > might argue that the gambler is wrong to take the
> > visual
> > representation of the Wheel of Fortune at face
> > value, i.e., as an
> > actual spinning wheel. To counter that, I would
> > argue that the
> > presentation of the wheel, the association of the
> > game with the well-
> > known game show, and the sound effect of the
> > "spinning" "wheel" all
> > reinforce that mistaken impression in the gambler's
> > mind, and
> > therefore crosses the line into deliberate
> > misrepresentation of the
> > game's characteristics, aka FRAUD.
> >
> > Of course, I only mention this to agree on WOF's
> > being a "great
> > gaming innovation". As we all know, casino fraud has
> > been perfectly
> > legal in Nevada for decades.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>

--
Rob Rosenhouse
Verona, NJ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

I feel the same way about the 'Slotto' slots. The balls that bounce

around

are just for show. The game has a compartment with one of each of

the award

balls and displays them at the whim of the RNG.

Yup, does sound pretty close to the live game Keno.

On the same subject, wouldn't reels on a slot also fall under this?

With 20

symbols per reel, there would only be 8000 combos on a 3 reel game,

and we

know that there are actually millions possible, via the virtual stop.

The slot machine itself is not a live game. The issue only arises when
a slot machine incorporates elements of a live game, such as poker
cards, or keno balls or cards, or the Money Wheel ...

There is a side issue on the old mechanical slots. Did players think
they were random spins? The reels don't spin at all like a random
spin. They obviously were not random, as evidenced by the players who
discovered you could influence the outcome by jerking the handle the
right way.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Rosenhouse" <rrosenhouse@...> wrote:

Rob

On Feb 7, 2008 2:56 PM, nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@...> > wrote:

> Does seem like it's a violation of 14.040.2b:
>
> "For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games,
> the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in
> a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that
> symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other
> gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in
> a position in any game outcome must be constant."
> http://gaming.nv.gov/stats_regs/reg14.pdf
>
> The live gambling game is the Money Wheel or Big Six Wheel. Does seem
> like the average customer would assume the Money Wheel is a random,
> non-rigged spin, and they would likewise assume the Wheel of Fortune
> is a random, non-rigged spin.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>, Wild Bill
> <wcimo@> wrote:
> >
> > I contacted Gaming Control twice on this issue with no
> > response from them. Obviously they are aware of it
> > and don't have an issue with it.
> >
> > Bill
> > Palms Moderator
> >
> > --- tralfamidorgooglycrackers
> > <tralfamidorgooglycrackers@> wrote:
> >
> > > I saw this game listed on the list from another
> > > thread of
> > > the "Greatest Gaming Innovations of All Time". He
> > > mentioned how the
> > > game has persisted (outliving hundreds of other slot
> > > games) because
> > > it appeals to the slot player's psyche. Well,
> > > there's one aspect of
> > > the game that is both a signal aspect of that and a
> > > salient
> > > characteristic of casino marketing:
> > >
> > > We know that 99% of casino marketing is based on
> > > fraud and
> > > deception: make the player think he's getting
> > > something for nothing;
> > > make him value something far more than reality
> > > should suggest;
> > > misrepresent the true odds against him, the true
> > > nature of the games
> > > he's playing, etc. etc. Well, WOF does all these
> > > things wonderfully,
> > > simply via the VISUAL LIE of the bonus wheel. You
> > > see, the wheel is
> > > divided into a number of "slots" (22, I think) with
> > > widely varying
> > > payouts on them, from 25 coins to 1000. Which value
> > > actually comes
> > > up is determined, not by the actual spin of the
> > > wheel, but by the
> > > RNG of the machine, making the actual "spin" an
> > > irrelevant sham. The
> > > RNG is biased extremely heavily toward the lower
> > > amounts (the two
> > > lowest values, 25 and 30, come up half the time).
> > >
> > > The net effect of this is to make the uninitiated
> > > gambler THINK that
> > > he has a 1 in 22 chance of hitting the "1000" slot
> > > on every spin,
> > > when in reality, his chances are about one in six
> > > billion (eight
> > > billion at Harrah's-owned casinos). Casinos and slot
> > > manufacturers
> > > might argue that the gambler is wrong to take the
> > > visual
> > > representation of the Wheel of Fortune at face
> > > value, i.e., as an
> > > actual spinning wheel. To counter that, I would
> > > argue that the
> > > presentation of the wheel, the association of the
> > > game with the well-
> > > known game show, and the sound effect of the
> > > "spinning" "wheel" all
> > > reinforce that mistaken impression in the gambler's
> > > mind, and
> > > therefore crosses the line into deliberate
> > > misrepresentation of the
> > > game's characteristics, aka FRAUD.
> > >
> > > Of course, I only mention this to agree on WOF's
> > > being a "great
> > > gaming innovation". As we all know, casino fraud has
> > > been perfectly
> > > legal in Nevada for decades.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________________
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> >
>
>
>

--
Rob Rosenhouse
Verona, NJ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Anyone who thinks they have a 1 in 22 chance of hitting
the 1,000 on a WoF bonus wheel is an idiot.

It may not be a 'nice' thing to say. But, it's true.

American Heritage Dictionary: id·i·ot (ĭd'ē-ət)
n.
A foolish or stupid person.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

My first $1 Royal at Red Rock tonight, holding KJ of Spades!! Whoohoo!!
Nice thing was that whilst waiting for the hand pay, I got 4 Aces on the
machine next door. I was only playing BP...not that I'm complaining. :slight_smile:

#10

he has a 1 in 22 chance of hitting the "1000" slot on every spin,
when in reality, his chances are about one in six billion (eight
billion at Harrah's-owned casinos

As I sat and waited last Friday for my 4 hour-delayed plane to leave, I
watched several people playing the slots nearby. I was bound and
determined not to "blow" my $17 winnings from my 6 days of gambling
so...I...just...watched. I no longer play WoF but like to watch
others. One lady sat at the end of a row and spun twice and the wheel
slowed as it neared the 1000 and settled on 25 that was just past it.
It did this twice. She quit, another person came and played and spun
once and got 30 on another machine. A third person came and was able
to spin on his third bet, he hit 1000! In the airport! Reminds me of
the time several years ago (maybe 2002 or 2004) where I read that
someone hit a 4 million Megabucks jackpot in the LV airport.
Unbelievable! I got home with my $17 and a newly developed Upper
Respiratory Infection.
Bill (40wnks)

#11

I prefer the second defintion, "A prized casino patron."

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Curtis Rich" <LGTVegas@...> wrote:

Anyone who thinks they have a 1 in 22 chance of hitting
the 1,000 on a WoF bonus wheel is an idiot.

It may not be a 'nice' thing to say. But, it's true.

American Heritage Dictionary: id·i·ot (Ä­d'Ä"-ət)
n.
A foolish or stupid person.

#12

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "worldbefree22001" <krajewski.sa@...>
wrote:

>
> Anyone who thinks they have a 1 in 22 chance of hitting
> the 1,000 on a WoF bonus wheel is an idiot.
>
> It may not be a 'nice' thing to say. But, it's true.
>
> American Heritage Dictionary: id·i·ot (Ä­d'Ä"-ət)
> n.
> A foolish or stupid person.
>
>

I prefer the second defintion, "A prized casino patron."

AKA, the pigeon or mark.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Curtis Rich" <LGTVegas@> wrote:

#13

I am somebody who sees the difference between the
big wheel (with $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, Joker, and casino
logo on it) and the wheel on Wheel of Fortune.

The Big Wheel....
....is a live 'table' game;
....is spun by a dealer with every wager

The Wheel of Fortune wheel....
....has completely different prizes on its slots;
....is a 'bonus' round connected to a slot machine
which has results based on results from a RNG

···

On 2/7/08, Wild Bill <wcimo@yahoo.com> wrote:

My point is that why would somebody think there is a
difference between the big wheel with $1, $2, $5, $10,
$20, Joker, and a casino logo on it and the wheel on
Wheel of Fortune. I have asked people I've watched
playing Wheel of Fortune and through my non-scientific
poll, everybody except one person has told me they
thought each slot had an equal opportunity of being
selected.

Does each slot on the wheel on Wheel of Fortune - the
game show have an equal opportunity of being selected?
Of course it does - so why wouldn't they think each
slot on the wheel on their slot machine had the same
chance of being selected.

Bill
Palms Moderator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

The bonus wheel on the Wheel of Fortune slot machine is NOT
representative of a "live gambling game."

I have never seen a live gambling game with a 22-stop wheel
with the same dollar amounts anywhere on which I could place
a wager.

The wheel on the TV show has 24 stops and is NOT a live
gambling game.

If the average customer would assume the Wheel of Fortune
wheel is a random, non-rigged spin, their assumption would
be correct. It IS random and it is NOT rigged.

···

On 2/7/08, nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

Does seem like it's a violation of 14.040.2b:

"For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games,
the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in
a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that
symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other
gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in
a position in any game outcome must be constant."
http://gaming.nv.gov/stats_regs/reg14.pdf

The live gambling game is the Money Wheel or Big Six Wheel. Does seem
like the average customer would assume the Money Wheel is a random,
non-rigged spin, and they would likewise assume the Wheel of Fortune
is a random, non-rigged spin.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#15

My first $1 Royal at Red Rock tonight, holding KJ of Spades!!

Whoohoo!!

Nice thing was that whilst waiting for the hand pay, I got 4 Aces on

the

machine next door. I was only playing BP...not that I'm

complaining. :slight_smile:

CONGRATS, Nathan & many more!!

P.S. Ya just gotta love a guy who says "whilst"!!

Neil M.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Nathan O. Roemer" <public@...> wrote:

#16

Come on. One look at the wheel robotically braking and shuddering to a stop
should be enough to disabuse anyone of the notion of this being a real wheel
being "spun."

···

On Feb 7, 2008 11:56 AM, nightoftheiguana2000 < nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

  The live gambling game is the Money Wheel or Big Six Wheel. Does seem
like the average customer would assume the Money Wheel is a random,
non-rigged spin, and they would likewise assume the Wheel of Fortune
is a random, non-rigged spin.

--
Jay Fenster
Open Road Publishing
* * *
Author, Open Road's Best of Las Vegas

Visit Open Road's Best of Las Vegas Blog
http://www.thebestoflasvegas.us

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#17

"Nathan O. Roemer" <public@soundmessage.com> wrote: My first $1 Royal at Red Rock tonight, holding KJ of Spades!! Whoohoo!!

Nice thing was that whilst waiting for the hand pay, I got 4 Aces on the

machine next door. I was only playing BP...not that I'm complaining. :slight_smile:

        Congrats. Still waiting for my first royal after about 100K hands, of which over 50 were 4 to a royal on the initial draw. Now go get the next one!!about 100k._,_.___ Messages in this topic (9) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#18

Luke,

I see the difference too but I don't think the average
person who comes to visit and donate to Las Vegas does
not see the difference otherwise why would they be
surprised when it just misses the 1000 and lands on
the slot next to it. What happened to the Gaming
Board telling the slot makers to avoid near misses? I
guess they must have forgotten about that when they
made this wheel.

Bill
Palms Moderator

···

--- Luke Fuller <kungalooosh@gmail.com> wrote:

I am somebody who sees the difference between the
big wheel (with $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, Joker, and
casino
logo on it) and the wheel on Wheel of Fortune.

The Big Wheel....
....is a live 'table' game;
....is spun by a dealer with every wager

The Wheel of Fortune wheel....
....has completely different prizes on its slots;
....is a 'bonus' round connected to a slot machine
which has results based on results from a RNG

On 2/7/08, Wild Bill <wcimo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> My point is that why would somebody think there is
a
> difference between the big wheel with $1, $2, $5,
$10,
> $20, Joker, and a casino logo on it and the wheel
on
> Wheel of Fortune. I have asked people I've
watched
> playing Wheel of Fortune and through my
non-scientific
> poll, everybody except one person has told me they
> thought each slot had an equal opportunity of
being
> selected.
>
> Does each slot on the wheel on Wheel of Fortune -
the
> game show have an equal opportunity of being
selected?
> Of course it does - so why wouldn't they think
each
> slot on the wheel on their slot machine had the
same
> chance of being selected.
>
> Bill
> Palms Moderator
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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#19

David Sklansky once referred to the Wheel of Fortune machines
as "immoral."

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Curtis Rich" <LGTVegas@...> wrote:

Anyone who thinks they have a 1 in 22 chance of hitting
the 1,000 on a WoF bonus wheel is an idiot.

It may not be a 'nice' thing to say. But, it's true.

American Heritage Dictionary: id·i·ot (Ä­d'Ä"-ət)
n.
A foolish or stupid person.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]