vpFREE2 Forums

What Should You Do?

#1

Hopefully this will situation will generate some interesting discussion.

A few months ago I was in Vegas with some friends. While I was
pounding some good VP plays, my friends were playing table games,
mostly blackjack. After a while they noticed I was what I was doing,
and asked why I was playing videopoker exclusively. I didn't get into
much detail, but basically explained I was looking for opportunities
where I had the best odds against the house.

The next day I walked up to one of my friends, who was playing a DDB
machine at the $5 level. My first reaction after looking at the pay
table was to tell him that I knew of several much better EV-low
variance plays at the $5 level in different casinos, but I didn't say
anything. I came back about an hour later and the guy was up 5 or 6
thousand dollars. I watched him play for a while and saw that he was
playing pretty well, but definitely making some strategy mistakes. My
reaction at this point was to say, man you have been really lucky, let
me spend some time with you showing you the proper strategy for this
game and get you to a machine that has a better pay table. But again
I decided to say nothing.

Given his success, he started playing $5 DDB exclusively and I think
he may have even gone to higher demons. To make a long story longer,
at the end of the weekend he was up about $14k. I think I lost about
$600.

So here is the question: If you were in this situation, what would
you do? This was a pretty smart guy, I could have explained both the
theory and the practice for the game he was playing and he would have
picked it up immediately. But for the situation he was in, short time
period, limited number of hands, playing a fairly high variance game,
what I could well have done is limit his potential instead of helping him.

#2

rreid0859 wrote:

So here is the question: If you were in this situation, what would
you do? This was a pretty smart guy, I could have explained both
the theory and the practice for the game he was playing and he
would have picked it up immediately. But for the situation he was
in, short time period, limited number of hands, playing a fairly
high variance game, what I could well have done is limit his
potential instead of helping him.

"pretty smart" doesn't translate to "receptive". Some people are keen
on data that helps them fill out the big picture, whether they decide
to change their behavior or not. Others seek out new info only when
circumstances lead them to ask, "What am I doing wrong".

My advice in such a situation: Toss out a few choice nuggets re the
gradually shifting roles played by luck vs. ER/variance in driving
results over time. Maybe touch on the strategy concept or, perhaps,
the importance of moderating bankroll risk to mitigate adverse luck.

But if within 3 minutes the person's eyes don't light up with some
interest, STFU and pat them on the back, celebrating in their good run.

- H.

#3

There is a downside of giving this info. He follows your advice and misses a big win if he had paid his own(wrong) way. Be careful you could lose a friend. Approach this very very carefully.

···

--- On Fri, 12/12/08, Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:
From: Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: What Should You Do?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 7:47 PM

            rreid0859 wrote:

So here is the question: If you were in this situation, what would

you do? This was a pretty smart guy, I could have explained both

the theory and the practice for the game he was playing and he

would have picked it up immediately. But for the situation he was

in, short time period, limited number of hands, playing a fairly

high variance game, what I could well have done is limit his

potential instead of helping him.

"pretty smart" doesn't translate to "receptive". Some people are keen

on data that helps them fill out the big picture, whether they decide

to change their behavior or not. Others seek out new info only when

circumstances lead them to ask, "What am I doing wrong".

My advice in such a situation: Toss out a few choice nuggets re the

gradually shifting roles played by luck vs. ER/variance in driving

results over time. Maybe touch on the strategy concept or, perhaps,

the importance of moderating bankroll risk to mitigate adverse luck.

But if within 3 minutes the person's eyes don't light up with some

interest, STFU and pat them on the back, celebrating in their good run.

- H.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

On the flipside, between now and when your friend returns to Vegas, you
might try to enlighten him, if for no other reason than he might not be so
lucky next time. After winning $14K, it might be easy for someone to lose
$28K trying to do it again.

···

From: kellypkjoe <kellypkjoe@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:56:37 -0800 (PST)
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: What Should You Do?

There is a downside of giving this info. He follows your advice and misses
a big win if he had paid his own(wrong) way. Be careful you could lose a
friend. Approach this very very carefully.

--- On Fri, 12/12/08, Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net <mailto:harry.porter%40verizon.net> > wrote:
From: Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net
<mailto:harry.porter%40verizon.net> >
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: What Should You Do?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 7:47 PM

rreid0859 wrote:

So here is the question: If you were in this situation, what would

you do? This was a pretty smart guy, I could have explained both

the theory and the practice for the game he was playing and he

would have picked it up immediately. But for the situation he was

in, short time period, limited number of hands, playing a fairly

high variance game, what I could well have done is limit his

potential instead of helping him.

"pretty smart" doesn't translate to "receptive". Some people are keen

on data that helps them fill out the big picture, whether they decide

to change their behavior or not. Others seek out new info only when

circumstances lead them to ask, "What am I doing wrong".

My advice in such a situation: Toss out a few choice nuggets re the

gradually shifting roles played by luck vs. ER/variance in driving

results over time. Maybe touch on the strategy concept or, perhaps,

the importance of moderating bankroll risk to mitigate adverse luck.

But if within 3 minutes the person's eyes don't light up with some

interest, STFU and pat them on the back, celebrating in their good run.

- H.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

I have direct deposit set up for all but about $300 of my pay check, which I
receive as a paper check so I can take advantage of various pay check
cashing promos. I have a Stations President card, although I've cut back my
play in recent months.

My wife recently started working a new job, and she cashed her pay checks at
Station Casinos until her direct deposit got going to avoid bank holds. Her
checks ranged from $1500 up to $2800. She has a Stations Gold card and has
NEVER given them any significant play.

At about a month after she started cashing her pay checks at Station
Casinos, her mail offers skyrocketed. In fact, her mail offers are now
usually 1.5x to 2x better than mine.

I'm wondering if cashing a higher $$ pay check at Stations will get you
better offers?? I can't think of anything else that's changed, and they
certainly don't have any incentive to send her offers that are better than
mine, since she never plays more than $20 in a slot machine maybe once every
week or two.

Any thoughts?

#6

December calendar of offers received in the mail includes a promo that
basically says that after you take advantage of two free play offers this
month, all the rest of your free play offers for the month will be
automatically doubled. Tried to cash in on this yesterday, as I'd cashed in
on the first two free play periods, and yesterday's should've been doubled.
However, it was not. Rewards Center at Santa Fe didn't know anything today
when asked. Has anyone else received this offer and cashed in on it
successfully?

#7

kellypkjoe wrote:

There is a downside of giving this info. He follows your advice
and misses a big win if he had paid his own(wrong) way. Be careful
you could lose a friend. Approach this very very carefully.

The OP described his friend as "pretty smart". Now, "smart" is in the
eye of the beholder, but if there's the slightest risk of a ruined
friendship on the table, "smart" isn't the operative word for me.

Look for me to keep this guy mellowed out by ensuring his beer glass
is full and keeping my sage advice to myself.

- H.

#8

I agree with everyone...If you want to be helpful inquire if he enjoyed playing video poker.If he did then mention about the various tools that are available to improve his playing skills. Richard from Ca.

···

--- On Fri, 12/12/08, kellypkjoe <kellypkjoe@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: kellypkjoe <kellypkjoe@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: What Should You Do?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 4:56 PM

There is a downside of giving this info. He follows your advice and misses a big win if he had paid his own(wrong) way. Be careful you could lose a friend. Approach this very very carefully.

--- On Fri, 12/12/08, Harry Porter <harry.porter@ verizon.net> wrote:
From: Harry Porter <harry.porter@ verizon.net>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: What Should You Do?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 7:47 PM

rreid0859 wrote:

So here is the question: If you were in this situation, what would

you do? This was a pretty smart guy, I could have explained both

the theory and the practice for the game he was playing and he

would have picked it up immediately. But for the situation he was

in, short time period, limited number of hands, playing a fairly

high variance game, what I could well have done is limit his

potential instead of helping him.

"pretty smart" doesn't translate to "receptive". Some people are keen

on data that helps them fill out the big picture, whether they decide

to change their behavior or not. Others seek out new info only when

circumstances lead them to ask, "What am I doing wrong".

My advice in such a situation: Toss out a few choice nuggets re the

gradually shifting roles played by luck vs. ER/variance in driving

results over time. Maybe touch on the strategy concept or, perhaps,

the importance of moderating bankroll risk to mitigate adverse luck.

But if within 3 minutes the person's eyes don't light up with some

interest, STFU and pat them on the back, celebrating in their good run.

- H.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

Harry's advice is dead on. The hardest type of "gambler" to educate is
generally one who is reasonably intelligent yet one who plays without a
gaming education.

This type of player thinks they have it all figured out and their ego
wouldn't dare allow them to admit they've been foolish in their
approach to gambling in the past. Educating this type of player, while
allowing their ego to get off the hook, is a very touchy process. If
this player doesn't solicit your advice then you should pass on
offering it.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

kellypkjoe wrote:
> There is a downside of giving this info. He follows your advice
> and misses a big win if he had paid his own(wrong) way. Be careful
> you could lose a friend. Approach this very very carefully.

The OP described his friend as "pretty smart". Now, "smart" is in the
eye of the beholder, but if there's the slightest risk of a ruined
friendship on the table, "smart" isn't the operative word for me.

Look for me to keep this guy mellowed out by ensuring his beer glass
is full and keeping my sage advice to myself.

#10

I agree with all.

Nothing wrong with inquiring about his interest. With a sign of interest on his part, one can
let him know about the tools that are available and let him go at it on his own.

If he then asks for additional information, one could state one's opinions, without
pontificating.

..... bl

#11

I explain to friends once. I continue if they express interest. Most people are not interested and that doesn't bother me.
Chandler

···

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from U.S. Cellular

-----Original Message-----
From: "rreid0859" <rreid0859@yahoo.com>

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:46:01
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] What Should You Do?

Hopefully this will situation will generate some interesting discussion.

A few months ago I was in Vegas with some friends. While I was
pounding some good VP plays, my friends were playing table games,
mostly blackjack. After a while they noticed I was what I was doing,
and asked why I was playing videopoker exclusively. I didn't get into
much detail, but basically explained I was looking for opportunities
where I had the best odds against the house.

The next day I walked up to one of my friends, who was playing a DDB
machine at the $5 level. My first reaction after looking at the pay
table was to tell him that I knew of several much better EV-low
variance plays at the $5 level in different casinos, but I didn't say
anything. I came back about an hour later and the guy was up 5 or 6
thousand dollars. I watched him play for a while and saw that he was
playing pretty well, but definitely making some strategy mistakes. My
reaction at this point was to say, man you have been really lucky, let
me spend some time with you showing you the proper strategy for this
game and get you to a machine that has a better pay table. But again
I decided to say nothing.

Given his success, he started playing $5 DDB exclusively and I think
he may have even gone to higher demons. To make a long story longer,
at the end of the weekend he was up about $14k. I think I lost about
$600.

So here is the question: If you were in this situation, what would
you do? This was a pretty smart guy, I could have explained both the
theory and the practice for the game he was playing and he would have
picked it up immediately. But for the situation he was in, short time
period, limited number of hands, playing a fairly high variance game,
what I could well have done is limit his potential instead of helping him.

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#12

sunset's slot club knew about this, but couldn't fix it directly...it
had to be adjusted at corp...they were supposed to call me when the
rest of the free play was there, but haven't...

December calendar of offers received in the mail includes a promo that
basically says that after you take advantage of two free play offers

this

month, all the rest of your free play offers for the month will be
automatically doubled. Tried to cash in on this yesterday, as I'd

cashed in

on the first two free play periods, and yesterday's should've been

doubled.

However, it was not. Rewards Center at Santa Fe didn't know

anything today

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Nathan O. Roemer" <public@...> wrote:

when asked. Has anyone else received this offer and cashed in on it
successfully?

#13

Just Wednesday received email offer from Encore for up to 3 free nights in Jan for a resort suite on select dates. Dates include all weekends except AVN Awards weekend on the 9th. Which is of course when I wanted to come in....Great time last year.!
Offer also included $200 in free play.
This was a surprise since I thought they had cut me off when I exclusively played 9/6 job on my last trip with 150 in free play.
My strategy this trip will be to play 9/5 job spin poker to disguise my play. I do think they will blackball you if you play 9/6 job exclusively or any other near full-pay game.

Also, watch out for people walking around looking for left behind credits. I left 400 dollars on the 9/6 job row near Red 8 and it was gone within 45 seconds. On my most recent trip, I was literally distracted by all the lurkers constantly walking by looking for credits.

A quick question to the community....I have never been offered free buffets for 750 points. I don't know if it's because I'm a tourist or because I was a red card member when they first opened or what. Any ideas or points of contact for help?

···

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com

_________________________________________________________________
You live life online. So we put Windows on the web.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

I have a friend who has just receive this offer and has booked
3 nights at the Encore in January. He has very little past history
at the Wynn. In fact all of his previous play was only enough to
get the two buffets when he first got his Red Card

I do not know if this is significant, but I also played that
same night about 2 years ago. I too played enough on a new card
to get the two buffets. The only difference between us is that
I hit a $4,000 royal that night and he lost a few hundred
dollars. We have often joked about how expensive his "free"
buffets were and how great my "free" buffets were.

However, I did not get this same offer. I guess his expensive
"free" buffets are now a little less expensive and my "free"
buffets are now a little less valuable.

Bob

Just Wednesday received email offer from Encore for up to 3 free

nights in Jan for a resort suite on select dates. Dates include all
weekends except AVN Awards weekend on the 9th. Which is of course
when I wanted to come in....Great time last year.!

Offer also included $200 in free play.
This was a surprise since I thought they had cut me off when I

exclusively played 9/6 job on my last trip with 150 in free play.

My strategy this trip will be to play 9/5 job spin poker to disguise

my play. I do think they will blackball you if you play 9/6 job
exclusively or any other near full-pay game.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, James Thompson <jamesgthompson@...> wrote:

_________________________________________________________________

You live life online. So we put Windows on the web.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#15

I think you just have to ask at the players club if they can look at
your card to see if there is a free buffet offer for you.

I've received this free buffet twice. The first time the players club
staff told me about it, the second time I asked if perhaps I had a
free buffet coming for me.

BTW I'm also a tourist and red card member and I play the minimum at Wynn.

Jackie

A quick question to the community....I have never been offered free

buffets for 750 points. I don't know if it's because I'm a tourist or
because I was a red card member when they first opened or what. Any
ideas or points of contact for help?

#16

futrend wrote:

I have a friend who has just receive this offer and has booked
3 nights at the Encore in January. He has very little past history
at the Wynn. In fact all of his previous play was only enough to
get the two buffets when he first got his Red Card

I do not know if this is significant, but I also played that
same night about 2 years ago. I too played enough on a new card
to get the two buffets. The only difference between us is that
I hit a $4,000 royal that night and he lost a few hundred
dollars. We have often joked about how expensive his "free"
buffets were and how great my "free" buffets were.

However, I did not get this same offer. I guess his expensive
"free" buffets are now a little less expensive and my "free"
buffets are now a little less valuable.

Received the emailed notice, sans room offer or free play. (Prior
mailed offers typically included $100-180 room rate w/ $150 free play.)

Put through $18K on a stop in last spring (9/6 JB). Doubt it factors
in the offer, but we're booked via host for a Jan 2/3 comp (tail end
of NY trip). Will likely call host back to see if Encore can be
confirmed, possibly with earlier $150 FP email offer valid those dates.

- Harry

#17

My ladyfriend just received the same email offer from the Encore, for
3 complimentary nights during the slow days in January. And she has
done very little play at the Wynn, she says it was just enough to earn
two free buffets when she signed up as a new players club member. She
put in no more than about $40. We stayed at the Wynn in early Feb this
year, when I received my 3 free nights, in the same way.

So we're checking in to the Encore on Jan 4, immediately following the
two free nights we got at the South Point (we just returned from
there). Five free nights in Vegas, whopee!

     Robert

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" <futrend@...> wrote:

I have a friend who has just receive this offer and has booked
3 nights at the Encore in January. He has very little past history
at the Wynn. In fact all of his previous play was only enough to
get the two buffets when he first got his Red Card

I do not know if this is significant, but I also played that
same night about 2 years ago. I too played enough on a new card
to get the two buffets. The only difference between us is that
I hit a $4,000 royal that night and he lost a few hundred
dollars. We have often joked about how expensive his "free"
buffets were and how great my "free" buffets were.

However, I did not get this same offer. I guess his expensive
"free" buffets are now a little less expensive and my "free"
buffets are now a little less valuable.

Bob

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, James Thompson <jamesgthompson@> wrote:

> Just Wednesday received email offer from Encore for up to 3 free
nights in Jan for a resort suite on select dates. Dates include all
weekends except AVN Awards weekend on the 9th. Which is of course
when I wanted to come in....Great time last year.!
> Offer also included $200 in free play.
> This was a surprise since I thought they had cut me off when I
exclusively played 9/6 job on my last trip with 150 in free play.
> My strategy this trip will be to play 9/5 job spin poker to disguise
my play. I do think they will blackball you if you play 9/6 job
exclusively or any other near full-pay game.

_________________________________________________________________
> You live life online. So we put Windows on the web.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#18

If you have a chance please be sure to give us as detailed a report as
your time permits. Obviously, machine selection will be of interest to
vpFREE members. But some info as to the good and bad things you
experience on your stay would also most certainly be appreciated.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tenore_s" <tenore_s@...> wrote:

So we're checking in to the Encore on Jan 4