What is the normal payout ratio on DDBVP?

[layoffvictim]

Is there a guide somewhere that lists the payout odds by casino or
by region? I was a regular for quite a while at Caesars Lake Tahoe
playing the $1 DDBVP like it was going out of style. During an
unfortunate three week period, I got absolutely creamed and lost an
ungodly sum. According to my calcs, the payout was somewhere
between 85-88%, and this was for a long period of play which ran
about 15,000 hands. Playing there exclusively for about two years,
I have not hit a Royal in almost 100,000 hands according to my
calcs. I know, call me stupid for playing there and having
continued to have played there. I just feel like they "set me up".
Like I was the guy who funded their paychecks and bonuses. i could
just see it on their faces. Especially this one young brash slot
host who may have been the biggest jerkoff I ve ever met.

I have been playing DDBVP for quite some time, so even factoring
lets say a ridiculously high 5% misplay (to be ultra ultra
conversative) on my part, my feeling is the payout was at least 5%
less than what it should have been, and would have saved me
literally thousands. I know what you guys are saying, "that's
gambling". Well maybe.

Could Northern Nevada's VP odds be almost as bad as Indian casinos?

Could I also bring this up with the Nevada Gaming Commission for
investigation, or will I just get laughed at? I'm very serious that
Caeasrs Tahoe was up to some sort of "hanky panky" when I played.
Can I sue them? I know they keep coin in,coin out results which
would show the horrible payout over the extended time. Remember,
I'm not talking about a two hour play period where its very possible
to have a low payout. I'm talking probably approx 88-90% payback
over a two year period of serious play that all the "free" hotel
rooms couldnt possibly make up for.

What do you pros think? Please help....

Lets put it this way, I personally made Caeasars' days when I showed
at for VP. Now I don't play at all anymore.

[Bill_Coleman2]

Let me try to answer your questions one by one.

First, the payout odds on VP in Nevada is strictly determined by the paytable posted on the machine. There are plenty of sources to tell you the payback WITH PERFECT PLAY. It is almost certain that the paytable you had returns less than 100% with perfect play over the long run. Video poker results are not random like slot machines. A slot programmed to return 96% will return 96% over the long run. Video poker results are heavily dependent on the skill of the player as well as the paytable.

It is unlucky, but not particularly unusual to go 15,000 hands without a Royal. Running simulations on WinPoker shows that you don't converge to theoretical return even after a million hands. Since you don't seem to have learned about pay tables, I suspect you haven't studied strategy charts either. If not, in a complicated game like DDB you are almost certainly giving up more than 5%. Without a Royal, which contributes 2% to the payback, given the other information posted, your history of 85-88% doesn't seem out of line with expectations. The pay schedule you were playing might return 95 or 96% (assuming perfect play) to start with.

Disregarding the paranoia of some contributors to this list, for Caesar's to replace the IGT chips with a gaffed one would be foolish. It would be easy for them to be caught (I understand that the chips are protected by Gaming Commission seals which would have to be forged) and if they were they would lose a license worth hundreds of millions of dollars to cheat customers out of a few thousands. They are not that big fools.

I think the Gaming Commission would file your complaint with crackpot complaints that go to the bottom of the investigatory pile. It is easy to think you are being ripped off when you experience a combination of low skill and poor luck.

Bill

···

At 08:33 AM 07/11/2003 +0000, you wrote:

Is there a guide somewhere that lists the payout odds by casino or
by region? I was a regular for quite a while at Caesars Lake Tahoe
playing the $1 DDBVP like it was going out of style. During an
unfortunate three week period, I got absolutely creamed and lost an
ungodly sum. According to my calcs, the payout was somewhere
between 85-88%, and this was for a long period of play which ran
about 15,000 hands.

Could Northern Nevada's VP odds be almost as bad as Indian casinos?

Could I also bring this up with the Nevada Gaming Commission for
investigation, or will I just get laughed at? I'm very serious that
Caeasrs Tahoe was up to some sort of "hanky panky" when I played.