"Los Angeles attorney Pierce O'Donnell later filed court papers challenging
the constitutionality of the system the district attorney has set up under
state law to prosecute gambling debts as bad checks."
Cogno
Watanabe lawyer challenges use of bad check law to collect gambling debts
Ultimately this does seem as if it should be a
civil and not criminal case. Only in a State
owned/run by casinos could a monetary debt become
criminal.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@...> wrote:
"Los Angeles attorney Pierce O'Donnell later filed court papers challenging
the constitutionality of the system the district attorney has set up under
state law to prosecute gambling debts as bad checks."Cogno
I believe that writing bad checks is illegal in every state, not just
Nevada.
···
On 6/18/10, krajewski.sa@pg.com <krajewski.sa@pg.com> wrote:
Ultimately this does seem as if it should be a
civil and not criminal case. Only in a State
owned/run by casinos could a monetary debt become
criminal.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Then you must have missed the point.
Cogno
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf
Of Luke Fuller
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 5:10 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Watanabe lawyer challenges use of bad check law
to collect gambling debtsI believe that writing bad checks is illegal in every state, not just
Nevada.On 6/18/10, krajewski.sa@pg.com <krajewski.sa@pg.com> wrote:
>
> Ultimately this does seem as if it should be a
> civil and not criminal case. Only in a State
> owned/run by casinos could a monetary debt become
> criminal.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
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It is. It's basically just good ole fashion stealing -- taking goods or services without actual payment.
That, however, isn't the issue. The issue is the treatment of a gambling debt as a crime, which is a far cry from writing a bad check. Presumably a casino has agreed to loan the gambler the money he/she lost to go into debt. That's not stealing that's defaulting on a loan, which happens all the time all over the country.
We don't have debtor's prison in the the US.
···
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: kungalooosh@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:09:31 -0700
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Watanabe lawyer challenges use of bad check law to collect gambling debts
I believe that writing bad checks is illegal in every state, not just
Nevada.
On 6/18/10, krajewski.sa@pg.com <krajewski.sa@pg.com> wrote:
Ultimately this does seem as if it should be a
civil and not criminal case. Only in a State
owned/run by casinos could a monetary debt become
criminal.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It is. It's basically just good ole fashion stealing --
taking goods or services without actual payment.That, however, isn't the issue. The issue is the treatment of a gambling debt as a crime, which is a far cry from writing a bad check. Presumably a casino has agreed to loan the gambler the money he/she lost to go into debt. That's not stealing that's defaulting on a loan, which happens all the time all over the country.
Now I don't profess to be as smart as most of the folks that post here, but isn't non-payment of a gambling debt a loss of revenue for the State of Nevada as well? The State does take their cut off the top, right? Does the state loose revenue if a gambling debt is not paid? Can the casino claim that as a deduction from revenue? I would think so- and if so, then they have the right- no I'd say the obligation- to pursue such debts, just as they would a business that does not pay their fair share.
But, perhaps I'm wrong and the State of Nevada's primary source of revenue is not the gambling tax......
Just thinking out loud- I might be wrong.
Thanks, Lee.
I'm not sure I see your point. Are you
implying that since the casinos pay tax on
this revenue the debt should be criminalized?
If so, the implication is that every civil debt
should be criminalized since every payee will
have tax liability.
If instead you're smirking at the State's
complicity in this, I agree, they also benefit
from this policy as does a corrupt local
district attorney. Hardly surprising in a State
run by and for the benefit of casinos.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "leetcrowell2" <lee.crowell@...> wrote:
{Snip} isn't non-payment of a gambling debt
a loss of revenue for the State of Nevada as
well? {Snip} But, perhaps I'm wrong and the
State of Nevada's primary source of revenue
is not the gambling tax......Just thinking out loud- I might be wrong.
Thanks, Lee.
"If so, the implication is that every civil debt should be criminalized since every payee will have tax liability."
You beat me to it. Should we lock-up everyone who is in default on their mortgage? The banks that loaned the money on all of those mortgages are presumably tax-payers.
Defaulting on a loan is simply not criminal conduct in the US. Fraud, on the other hand, can be criminal conduct. So, for example, if someone lies on a loan application to obtain the loan he/she does not intend to repay, then criminal prosecution may well be warranted. A simple loan default is a completely different animal though.
Not only do we not have debtor's prison, we allow people to bathe themselves in the healing waters of bankruptcy. One may well argue that's not how it "should" be, but there is no debate that that's currently how it is.
···
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: krajewski.sa@pg.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 12:17:12 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Watanabe lawyer challenges use of bad check law to collect gambling debts
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "leetcrowell2" <lee.crowell@...> wrote:
{Snip} isn't non-payment of a gambling debt
a loss of revenue for the State of Nevada as
well? {Snip} But, perhaps I'm wrong and the
State of Nevada's primary source of revenue
is not the gambling tax......Just thinking out loud- I might be wrong.
Thanks, Lee.
I'm not sure I see your point. Are you
implying that since the casinos pay tax on
this revenue the debt should be criminalized?
If so, the implication is that every civil debt
should be criminalized since every payee will
have tax liability.
If instead you're smirking at the State's
complicity in this, I agree, they also benefit
from this policy as does a corrupt local
district attorney. Hardly surprising in a State
run by and for the benefit of casinos.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]