Hi Everyone
I am out in Seattle for a few days. Haven't been here in many years
and wondering if the casinos are worth a visit.
Do they have VP at all, playable or not? I see that one casino has
something like 1500 machines but are they all slots?
I would appreciate any info that anyone has.
Thanks
Bob
Don't do it. The machines LOOK like nevada & other legit VP mchines, until you start
playing. There is this math card in the right upper corner. When it matches your last
crd, you get a random jackpot of from 5-1000 creds. Assuming you play 5 creds.
Truth is , it proves the games are "fixed", meaning your WIN amount( per paytable
payouts) is predetermined On the deal. It doesn't matter what you hold, the match
card will make up the hand you should have drawn had you held properly. If you're in
a casino to play poker (recommended!) or table games (so-so, better than slots)
throw 5 qtrs in a vp machine (better yet 5 nickels). Hold nothing and the match card
should match a lot. True in the tribal casinos - (like Muckleshoot in Auburn and
Tulalip in Marysville way north.
For lots of more discussions, search this site's archives using "Washington" and
maybe VLT (video lottery terminal).
~MARK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob J" <rjoseph@e...> wrote:
Hi Everyone
I am out in Seattle for a few days. Haven't been here in many years
and wondering if the casinos are worth a visit.Do they have VP at all, playable or not? I see that one casino has
something like 1500 machines but are they all slots?I would appreciate any info that anyone has.
Thanks
Bob
Just because a machine doesn't work in a particular way doesn't mean
that it is "fixed" or not "legit". Like a slot machine, these
machines are completely fair and random within the context of their
jurisdiction. The are not based on a 52-card deck with each card
having an equal chance of coming up on the deal or draw. Instead, the
deal and draw are for entertainment. The final outcome is determined
when the deal button is pressed. The draw will have no effect on the
final outcome.
Please do not confuse this behavior with rigged or "fixed" machines.
Again, they act properly and legally within the laws of Washington
State (actually the compacts between the governor and the tribes).
B
At 12:14 AM 11/4/2005, you wrote:
Don't do it. The machines LOOK like nevada & other legit VP mchines,
until you start
playing. There is this math card in the right upper corner. When it
matches your last
crd, you get a random jackpot of from 5-1000 creds. Assuming you
play 5 creds.Truth is , it proves the games are "fixed", meaning your WIN amount(
per paytable
payouts) is predetermined On the deal. It doesn't matter what you
hold, the match
card will make up the hand you should have drawn had you held
properly. If you're in
a casino to play poker (recommended!) or table games (so-so, better
than slots)
throw 5 qtrs in a vp machine (better yet 5 nickels). Hold nothing
and the match card
should match a lot. True in the tribal casinos - (like Muckleshoot
in Auburn and
Tulalip in Marysville way north.For lots of more discussions, search this site's archives using
"Washington" and
maybe VLT (video lottery terminal).~MARK
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Everyone
I am out in Seattle for a few days. Haven't been here in many
years
and wondering if the casinos are worth a visit.
Do they have VP at all, playable or not? I see that one casino has
something like 1500 machines but are they all slots?I would appreciate any info that anyone has.
Thanks
Bob
Sorry, I don't believe you will find any LV style VP in Washington,
with one exception, in the Spokane area (about 300 miles east of
Seattle). The Spokane Indian tribe still has not signed a compact
with the state, so they still offer LV style VP at their three
casinos. Some have positive (or nearly positive) pay tables. These
casinos are included in the VPfree database.
However, this may be about to change. According to a recent article,
the tribe is close to an agreement with the state. As I understand
it, the tribe wants permission to locate a new mega casino close to
Spokane (off their reservation) in exchange for agreeing to a compact
with the state. If that happens the LV video poker will be history
because the state does not permit LV style VP. It looks like real
VP, and plays like it, but isn't. The outcome is determined on the
deal, and your choice of holds/discards makes no difference. Also,
the payback cannot be determined based on the payschedule.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob J" <rjoseph@e...> wrote:
Yes, but these types of VP machines are inherently misleading to the
general public. The are designed to give the illusion of being a skill
based game, when they really aren't. In form and function they
are "fixed" or "rigged", in spite of the fact that they are "fair"
within the laws of their jurisdiction.
EE
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@c...> wrote:
Just because a machine doesn't work in a particular way doesn't mean
that it is "fixed" or not "legit". Like a slot machine, these
machines are completely fair and random within the context of their
jurisdiction. The are not based on a 52-card deck with each card
having an equal chance of coming up on the deal or draw......<<<<<<
Stop being an apologist for the bad gaming laws in Wa.. Every casino I go
into in Wa.,I ask the slot employees if their Video Poker is the same as in
LV and they all say yes. The games are not only misleading,but, the Wa.
state Legis. is being dishonest when they try to pass these games off as
"real Video Poker".
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Coleman" <vphobby2@cox.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Washington State VP
Just because a machine doesn't work in a particular way doesn't mean
that it is "fixed" or not "legit". Like a slot machine, these
machines are completely fair and random within the context of their
jurisdiction. The are not based on a 52-card deck with each card
having an equal chance of coming up on the deal or draw. Instead, the
deal and draw are for entertainment. The final outcome is determined
when the deal button is pressed. The draw will have no effect on the
final outcome.Please do not confuse this behavior with rigged or "fixed" machines.
Again, they act properly and legally within the laws of Washington
State (actually the compacts between the governor and the tribes).B
At 12:14 AM 11/4/2005, you wrote:
>Don't do it. The machines LOOK like nevada & other legit VP mchines,
>until you start
>playing. There is this math card in the right upper corner. When it
>matches your last
>crd, you get a random jackpot of from 5-1000 creds. Assuming you
>play 5 creds.
>
>Truth is , it proves the games are "fixed", meaning your WIN amount(
>per paytable
>payouts) is predetermined On the deal. It doesn't matter what you
>hold, the match
>card will make up the hand you should have drawn had you held
>properly. If you're in
>a casino to play poker (recommended!) or table games (so-so, better
>than slots)
>throw 5 qtrs in a vp machine (better yet 5 nickels). Hold nothing
>and the match card
>should match a lot. True in the tribal casinos - (like Muckleshoot
>in Auburn and
>Tulalip in Marysville way north.
>
>For lots of more discussions, search this site's archives using
>"Washington" and
>maybe VLT (video lottery terminal).
>
> ~MARK[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
Let me chime in about the misleading aspect.
Before I knew about class II or III or whatever these VLTs are... (i forget the compact
already), I asked one of the attendants if they had any progressive royals. He said no,
but took the misleading role by saying, "We're working on that...!!"
I tell everybody I know not to play them.
& david - there was a guy persuing legal action against the Tribes or WA state for the
deception or some farfetched thing a couple 2-3 yrs ago. You know about that?
Anybody got a status on that without rehashing the whole (ugly) thread?
~MARK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "david bauer" <dbauer33@c...> wrote:
Stop being an apologist for the bad gaming laws in Wa.. Every casino I go
into in Wa.,I ask the slot employees if their Video Poker is the same as in
LV and they all say yes. The games are not only misleading,but, the Wa.
state Legis. is being dishonest when they try to pass these games off as
"real Video Poker".
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Coleman" <vphobby2@c...>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Washington State VP> Just because a machine doesn't work in a particular way doesn't mean
> that it is "fixed" or not "legit". Like a slot machine, these
> machines are completely fair and random within the context of their
> jurisdiction. The are not based on a 52-card deck with each card
> having an equal chance of coming up on the deal or draw. Instead, the
> deal and draw are for entertainment. The final outcome is determined
> when the deal button is pressed. The draw will have no effect on the
> final outcome.
>
> Please do not confuse this behavior with rigged or "fixed" machines.
> Again, they act properly and legally within the laws of Washington
> State (actually the compacts between the governor and the tribes).
>
> B
>
> At 12:14 AM 11/4/2005, you wrote:
> >Don't do it. The machines LOOK like nevada & other legit VP mchines,
> >until you start
> >playing. There is this math card in the right upper corner. When it
> >matches your last
> >crd, you get a random jackpot of from 5-1000 creds. Assuming you
> >play 5 creds.
> >
> >Truth is , it proves the games are "fixed", meaning your WIN amount(
> >per paytable
> >payouts) is predetermined On the deal. It doesn't matter what you
> >hold, the match
> >card will make up the hand you should have drawn had you held
> >properly. If you're in
> >a casino to play poker (recommended!) or table games (so-so, better
> >than slots)
> >throw 5 qtrs in a vp machine (better yet 5 nickels). Hold nothing
> >and the match card
> >should match a lot. True in the tribal casinos - (like Muckleshoot
> >in Auburn and
> >Tulalip in Marysville way north.
> >
> >For lots of more discussions, search this site's archives using
> >"Washington" and
> >maybe VLT (video lottery terminal).
> >
> > ~MARK
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bill Coleman wrote: "Just because a machine doesn't work in a particular
way doesn't mean
that it is "fixed" or not "legit". Like a slot machine, these
machines are completely fair and random within the context of their
jurisdiction."
Once again, I will repeat the request for any independently audited and
certified proof of that. Lacking that from prior exchanges and seeing
repeated posts will provoke the same question.
"The are not based on a 52-card deck with each card
having an equal chance of coming up on the deal or draw. Instead, the
deal and draw are for entertainment. The final outcome is determined
when the deal button is pressed. The draw will have no effect on the
final outcome.
It is really amazing how much misinformation floats around. Every
Native American Casino is regulated, audited and monitored by the
Federal Government as well as Tribal agencies. The National Indian
Gaming Commission has the mission :
Mission and Responsibilities
The Commission's primary mission is to regulate gaming activities on
Indian lands for the purpose of shielding Indian tribes from
organized crime and other corrupting influences; to ensure that
Indian tribes are the primary beneficiaries of gaming revenue; and to
assure that gaming is conducted fairly and honestly by both operators
and players.
To achieve these goals, the Commission is authorized to conduct
investigations; undertake enforcement actions, including the issuance
of notices of violation assessment of civil fines, and/or issuance of
closure orders; conduct background investigations; conduct audits;
and review and approve Tribal gaming ordinances.
which comes directly from their web site, www.nigc.gov. If you trust
the regulators in Nevada, Missouri, etc. you should trust these
people. While most Native casinos have really lousy paybacks and
table game rules compared to Nevada they are not cheating, anymore
than Nevada casino operators cheat.
Bill
At 09:53 AM 11/5/2005, you wrote:
>Bill Coleman wrote: "Just because a machine doesn't work in a particular
way doesn't mean
that it is "fixed" or not "legit". Like a slot machine, these
machines are completely fair and random within the context of their
jurisdiction."Once again, I will repeat the request for any independently audited and
certified proof of that. Lacking that from prior exchanges and seeing
repeated posts will provoke the same question.>"The are not based on a 52-card deck with each card
having an equal chance of coming up on the deal or draw. Instead, the
deal and draw are for entertainment. The final outcome is determined
when the deal button is pressed. The draw will have no effect on the
final outcome.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just to correct a few things:
I am not apologizing for the compact rules, a number of people think
that the machines are "fixed" and I am trying to clear up the rules
they operate under.
I would suggest that you report any employees giving that kind of
misinformation to the casino management. I don't know if any action
would be taken, but you can also complain to the Governor and the
National Indian Gaming Commission about misleading information.
The Washington State Legislature has absolutely no control over the
machines. The Governor signed a compact with the tribes that
restricts VP even though in all other aspects Washington is a Class
III state. The Compact was approved by the Federal Government. I'd
bet the Tribes would love to have Nevada-style VP. Why not organize a
petition drive aimed at the Governor to get the Compacts changed?
B
At 04:58 PM 11/4/2005, you wrote:
Stop being an apologist for the bad gaming laws in Wa.. Every casino I go
into in Wa.,I ask the slot employees if their Video Poker is the same as in
LV and they all say yes. The games are not only misleading,but, the Wa.
state Legis. is being dishonest when they try to pass these games off as
"real Video Poker".
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Coleman" <vphobby2@cox.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Washington State VP> Just because a machine doesn't work in a particular way doesn't mean
> that it is "fixed" or not "legit". Like a slot machine, these
> machines are completely fair and random within the context of their
> jurisdiction. The are not based on a 52-card deck with each card
> having an equal chance of coming up on the deal or draw. Instead, the
> deal and draw are for entertainment. The final outcome is determined
> when the deal button is pressed. The draw will have no effect on the
> final outcome.
>
> Please do not confuse this behavior with rigged or "fixed" machines.
> Again, they act properly and legally within the laws of Washington
> State (actually the compacts between the governor and the tribes).
>
> B
>
> At 12:14 AM 11/4/2005, you wrote:
> >Don't do it. The machines LOOK like nevada & other legit VP mchines,
> >until you start
> >playing. There is this math card in the right upper corner. When it
> >matches your last
> >crd, you get a random jackpot of from 5-1000 creds. Assuming you
> >play 5 creds.
> >
> >Truth is , it proves the games are "fixed", meaning your WIN amount(
> >per paytable
> >payouts) is predetermined On the deal. It doesn't matter what you
> >hold, the match
> >card will make up the hand you should have drawn had you held
> >properly. If you're in
> >a casino to play poker (recommended!) or table games (so-so, better
> >than slots)
> >throw 5 qtrs in a vp machine (better yet 5 nickels). Hold nothing
> >and the match card
> >should match a lot. True in the tribal casinos - (like Muckleshoot
> >in Auburn and
> >Tulalip in Marysville way north.
> >
> >For lots of more discussions, search this site's archives using
> >"Washington" and
> >maybe VLT (video lottery terminal).
> >
> > ~MARK
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Copy and paste this link at the end of this post into your browser
address bar and hit enter. This FAQ page is about TLS(VLT) machines in
Native American Casinos in the state of WA. This FAQ is for slots and
vp like games.Since video poker in Native American Casinos in WA seems
to be a frequent topic may I suggest that the admin link this page
into VPFree FAQ page under Indian Casino Discussion.
www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/tlsFAQ.htm
On 11/5/05, MHS <mspevack@netcarrier.com> wrote:
>Bill Coleman wrote: "Just because a machine doesn't work in a particular
way doesn't mean
that it is "fixed" or not "legit". Like a slot machine, these
machines are completely fair and random within the context of their
jurisdiction."Once again, I will repeat the request for any independently audited and
certified proof of that. Lacking that from prior exchanges and seeing
repeated posts will provoke the same question.>"The are not based on a 52-card deck with each card
having an equal chance of coming up on the deal or draw. Instead, the
deal and draw are for entertainment. The final outcome is determined
when the deal button is pressed. The draw will have no effect on the
final outcome.vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
I guess I'm the guilty party for the discussions of gambling in
Washington's tribal casinos. I spend half the year in LV
and half in Washington. Thanks for mentioning the very
informative website.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Five Play <AdKdQdJd10d@g...> wrote:
Since video poker in Native American Casinos in WA seems
to be a frequent topic may I suggest that the admin link this page
into VPFree FAQ page under Indian Casino Discussion.