vpFREE2 Forums

WA state gambling

#1

Spent 4 days in nw part WA state.

Didn't visit many casinos but saw lots of ads & billboards for them.

Visited 7-Cedars Casino outside of Sequim on the way to Port Angeles on the
Olympic peninsula. Small casino, doesn't comp drinks to players, seemed like
best game was 5-8 JB with a bonus match feature (more on this later).

Visited the new Tulalip casino (exit 200 on I-5 n of Seattle). It was open
about a month when we were there. Not much VP, again the best VP seemed to be
the 5-8 JB with a bonus match feature however there were some differences in RF.
At $; RF was 4000, at quarters & nickels; RF was 20,000 coins which adds
another 1/2 % (these were 20-coin machines). So it makes no sense to play $ as
20-coin quarters will give you the same amount of action but a chance for $5K RF
vs $4K RF on $. One feature that makes this place worth a stop if you're
passing by on I-5 is the outdoor exhibit in front of the casino. It's got replicas
of orcas (killer whales), waterfall, garden area with paved footpaths--perfect
stop if you've got antsy kids.

Other casinos
Found an 8-page rag called "The Ultimate Gaming Guide" which had articles by
Nelson Rose, Henry Tamburin & Michael Shackleford. However its most noteworthy
features were the 3 match plays for $10, $10 & $25. Had no problem using one
of the coupons (won $20) but it seemed like all casinos advertised were just
cardrooms.

Re 5-8 JB with bonus match feature

Bonus match feature kicks out a bonus if your 5th card matches whatever card
is generated after the draw.
Since 5-8 JB is 97.3% at base or 97.8% with 20,000-coin RF (20 coins played),
it seems you need a 7-coin bonus for the 97.3% game or a 23-coin bonus for
the 97.8% game as figured thusly:

97.3%
(.027*1.25*52)/.25 = 7

97.8%
(.022*5*52)/.25 = 23

This assumes a match every 52 hands and that the matching card is generated
randomly.

Didn't play at Tulalip but did play at 7 Cedars & got a 6-coin average on 6
bonuses (4 for my wife & 2 for me). I know I went beyond 52 hands by quite a
lot but it's too short to say if it was random or not.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Glenn, Washington state does not have "true" video poker. They are
considered Video lottery terminals and you cannot figure out payback
percentages based on the paytables. I'm sure they are much lower than 97%.
Oregon has true VP but no paytables that are anywhere near playable.

Sylvia

···

----- Original Message -----
From: <TedChee@aol.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 6:01 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: WA state gambling

Spent 4 days in nw part WA state.

Didn't visit many casinos but saw lots of ads & billboards for them.

Visited 7-Cedars Casino outside of Sequim on the way to Port Angeles on

the

Olympic peninsula. Small casino, doesn't comp drinks to players, seemed

like

best game was 5-8 JB with a bonus match feature (more on this later).

Visited the new Tulalip casino (exit 200 on I-5 n of Seattle). It was open
about a month when we were there. Not much VP, again the best VP seemed to

be

the 5-8 JB with a bonus match feature however there were some differences

in RF.

At $; RF was 4000, at quarters & nickels; RF was 20,000 coins which adds
another 1/2 % (these were 20-coin machines). So it makes no sense to play

$ as

20-coin quarters will give you the same amount of action but a chance for

$5K RF

vs $4K RF on $. One feature that makes this place worth a stop if you're
passing by on I-5 is the outdoor exhibit in front of the casino. It's got

replicas

of orcas (killer whales), waterfall, garden area with paved

footpaths--perfect

stop if you've got antsy kids.

Other casinos
Found an 8-page rag called "The Ultimate Gaming Guide" which had articles

by

Nelson Rose, Henry Tamburin & Michael Shackleford. However its most

noteworthy

features were the 3 match plays for $10, $10 & $25. Had no problem using

one

of the coupons (won $20) but it seemed like all casinos advertised were

just

cardrooms.

Re 5-8 JB with bonus match feature

Bonus match feature kicks out a bonus if your 5th card matches whatever

card

is generated after the draw.
Since 5-8 JB is 97.3% at base or 97.8% with 20,000-coin RF (20 coins

played),

it seems you need a 7-coin bonus for the 97.3% game or a 23-coin bonus for
the 97.8% game as figured thusly:

97.3%
(.027*1.25*52)/.25 = 7

97.8%
(.022*5*52)/.25 = 23

This assumes a match every 52 hands and that the matching card is

generated

randomly.

Didn't play at Tulalip but did play at 7 Cedars & got a 6-coin average on

6

bonuses (4 for my wife & 2 for me). I know I went beyond 52 hands by quite

a

lot but it's too short to say if it was random or not.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

#3

Spent 4 days in nw part WA state.

Didn't visit many casinos but saw lots of ads & billboards for them.

Visited 7-Cedars Casino outside of Sequim on the way to Port

Angeles on the

Olympic peninsula. Small casino, doesn't comp drinks to players.

According to "Comp City", the WA casinos are not allowed to comp
drinks. I have seen four bit and dollar drinks for players
advertised though.
As Sylvia says, it is not true video poker. To meet WA state legal
requirements, it is a form of lotto with the result determined by a
central computer. I have read somewhere that the result is
predetermined and, for example, if you misplay a hand the computer
has scheduled as a winner, you will get a "bonus" payout to make it
good. I can't attest to this personally though so please take it
FWIW.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, TedChee@a... wrote:

#4

So true, search back about a year for threads here. Sound the alarms:
Don't play VP in Washington State! I have read some of the compacts
with the tribes - the VP need only return 75% !! The match card is
the tip-off. Thanks to Sylvia and one other poster, who replied to
my Match card inquiries here, I have saved a lot of money by NOT
playing here (where I live).

Am visiting in Oregon tonite for the weekend. Bonus Joker Poker has
600-1 payoff for natch Royals, 5-of a kind AND Joker Royals, a
possible glitch. This game seems playable, I'll share the full
paytable later. But you are right, they are random, and I am
guessing most are 91-95%, if you alter your strategy. No sense
wasting your bankroll in Oregon.

(I have noted many games and paytables for ORegon State Lottery VP
games: e-mail me if you would like them & can run them thru Winpoker
for me!)

~Mark Time

Glenn, Washington state does not have "true" video poker. They are
considered Video lottery terminals and you cannot figure out payback
percentages based on the paytables. I'm sure they are much lower

than 97%.

Oregon has true VP but no paytables that are anywhere near playable.

Sylvia

From: <TedChee@a...>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 6:01 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: WA state gambling

> Spent 4 days in nw part WA state.
>
> Didn't visit many casinos but saw lots of ads & billboards for

them.

>
> Visited 7-Cedars Casino outside of Sequim on the way to Port

Angeles on

the
> Olympic peninsula. Small casino, doesn't comp drinks to players,

seemed

like
> best game was 5-8 JB with a bonus match feature (more on this

later).

>
> Visited the new Tulalip casino (exit 200 on I-5 n of Seattle). It

was open

> about a month when we were there. Not much VP, again the best VP

seemed to

be
> the 5-8 JB with a bonus match feature however there were some

differences

in RF.
> At $; RF was 4000, at quarters & nickels; RF was 20,000 coins

which adds

> another 1/2 % (these were 20-coin machines). So it makes no sense

to play

$ as
> 20-coin quarters will give you the same amount of action but a

chance for

$5K RF
> vs $4K RF on $. One feature that makes this place worth a stop if

you're

> passing by on I-5 is the outdoor exhibit in front of the casino.

It's got

replicas
> of orcas (killer whales), waterfall, garden area with paved
footpaths--perfect
> stop if you've got antsy kids.
>
> Other casinos
> Found an 8-page rag called "The Ultimate Gaming Guide" which had

articles

by
> Nelson Rose, Henry Tamburin & Michael Shackleford. However its

most

noteworthy
> features were the 3 match plays for $10, $10 & $25. Had no

problem using

one
> of the coupons (won $20) but it seemed like all casinos

advertised were

just
> cardrooms.
>
> Re 5-8 JB with bonus match feature
>
> Bonus match feature kicks out a bonus if your 5th card matches

whatever

card
> is generated after the draw.
> Since 5-8 JB is 97.3% at base or 97.8% with 20,000-coin RF (20

coins

played),
> it seems you need a 7-coin bonus for the 97.3% game or a 23-coin

bonus for

> the 97.8% game as figured thusly:
>
> 97.3%
> (.027*1.25*52)/.25 = 7
>
> 97.8%
> (.022*5*52)/.25 = 23
>
> This assumes a match every 52 hands and that the matching card is
generated
> randomly.
>
> Didn't play at Tulalip but did play at 7 Cedars & got a 6-coin

average on

6
> bonuses (4 for my wife & 2 for me). I know I went beyond 52 hands

by quite

a
> lot but it's too short to say if it was random or not.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> vpFREE Links: http://www.west-

point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

···

-- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sylvia" <sgosline@e...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
>
>

#5

Frank - I CAN attest to the electronic pull-tab-ness of the tribal VP in
Washington state. It does not matter AT ALL what cards you keep in video
poker here, the match card amount will make up the difference between your
final hand and the best hand you would have got had you kept the optimum
cards. You can just hit deal and draw endlessly without holding any cards.
Gee, sounds like a slot machine. 75% ("min") payback.

As I told in a posted story in January 2003 here, my friend "accidentally" kept
a flush instead of the 4-part Royal. The match card matched and he was
given the extra 3975 credits (playing 5 quarters). A week later I hit my Royal
playing 20 quarters. The next day, folks here responded to the Match Card
question I posed, and I got straightened out. I haven't played in this state
since.

Tedcheese: If you would like to read the Washington tribal compacts, e-mail
me separately, I can give you a website or two, with too many disclaimers to
list here. And if you get a LOW percentage of match cards, it means you are
keeping the correct cards (at least as correct as the electronic pull-tab
programmer sticks to perfect play as he makes up the 10-card "pulltabs")...

  ~Mark P.

Frank wrote:

···

As Sylvia says, it is not true video poker. To meet WA state legal
requirements, it is a form of lotto with the result determined by a
central computer. I have read somewhere that the result is
predetermined and, for example, if you misplay a hand the computer
has scheduled as a winner, you will get a "bonus" payout to make it
good. I can't attest to this personally though so please take it
FWIW.