vpFREE2 Forums

W2Gs and social security

#1

First - W2Gs are issued for slot wins of over $1200 - regardless as to what
demonination is played. If you play a multiline VP machine, you will be
given a W2G if your total payout is over $1200 - even if it is say $400 on each
line. On a single line machine you would not have been given a W2g for $400 -
but because your Total Payout at one time is now $1200 - you get the W2G.

I've only seen one casino refuse to issue a jackpot for not having an actual
Social Security card - this was the Stardust.

Since then I always carry my Social Security card with me, as well as a
Driver's License. If you win a W2G jackpot you will have to give your SS number
in any case, so why not carry proof of it with you, to avoid hassle?

If you do not have an actual SS card, you should get one from the SS agency,
since you will need to have an actual card at some point in your life, if
not for casino jackpots, such as when you retire and need to contact SS to
start your SS pension.

We hear a lot about identity theft, but I've never heard of a casino
employee stealing IDs. The usual sources of theft are computer hacking (including
people who fill out false emails), and people who just rummage through trash
for information.

I've gotten many W2Gs, and almost always, they want to see at least my
Driver's License and slot card. Sometimes they require seeing the actual SS
number (which currently is actually on my Nevada license - a practice which may
have been discontinued).

Which is worse - being paranoid about identity theft, or undergoing a lot of
time-wasting hassling if you don't have proper ID when you win a W2G
jackpot? Obviously, that is up to an individual to decide. If you never get W2Gs,
don't take your SS card, but if you get them, it may be a lot easier to have
it.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

I called the TI slot club, and the "double cashback as free play" promotion is indeed limited to reel slots only - no video poker. Same as the Mirage.

John

···

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

The database states:

(4) $1 (3/5 Play) near Krispy Kreme stand.

But there is a complete bank of .25/$1 (3/5 Play) NSUD machines at that location - I think 8 machines total (or is it 10?).

And there is also a single $1/$5 (3/5 Play) NSUD machine in the high limit area.

John

···

---------------------------------
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

To vpFREE admin:

I played some $5 NSUD at the Stratosphere and it appears that $5 coin-in yields 3 points. About every $100 or so another point is added, so there must be an additional fraction of a point in there, but that's closer than what the comment in the database says, $1 per point for negative vp. I tried a few hands at $10 and $1 and the same ratio holds.

The boothling gave me a nebulous statement about the point ratio, something like: "it depends how long you play the machine". I found no increase in the ratio after about an hour on the same machine.

John

···

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

............... If you play a multiline VP machine, you will be
given a W2G if your total payout is over $1200 - even if it is say
$400 on each line. On a single line machine you would not have
been given a W2g for $400 - but because your Total Payout at one
time is now $1200 - you get the W2G.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, misscraps@a... wrote:

------------------------------------------

There has been lots of discussion about the tax situation in regard
to multiline machines. I had thought that the majority opinion was
that a W2-G was NOT required, if the individual line payoff was less
than $1200. Perhaps I am confusing this with a situation where a
player scores a $1000 RF does not cash out, wins more, and then
cashes out a ticket for $1200+, w/o generating a W2-G.
-------------------------------------------

I've only seen one casino refuse to issue a jackpot for not having
an actual Social Security card - this was the Stardust. Since then I
always carry my Social Security card with me, as well as a Driver's
License. If you win a W2G jackpot you will have to give your SS
number
  <snip>
  
I've gotten many W2Gs, and almost always, they want to see at least
my Driver's License and slot card. Sometimes they require seeing
the actual SS number (which currently is actually on my Nevada
license - a practice which may have been discontinued).
------------------------------------------

THANK YOU, MS CRAPS!! I am really relieved that I am not the only
one who has had this experience. I was beginning to think that they
were "picking on me"!

Thank you for your insight on this complicated subject.

Babe

#6

misscraps wrote:

Since then I always carry my Social Security card with me, as well
as a Driver's License. If you win a W2G jackpot you will have to
give your SS number in any case, so why not carry proof of it with
you, to avoid hassle?

Security theft advisors recommend that no form of ID be carried that
discloses your SSN. For that matter, check out the advisory issued by
the State of Arizona Department of Public Safety:

http://www.azvictims.com/identity/default.asp

Anyone who's been a victim of ID theft will tell you that precaution
is well worth the hassle of dealing with someone who makes an invalid
request for SSN documentation (which is the case of any casino who
asks for proof ... your signed statement is all that the IRS requires).

- H.

#7

jackessiebabe wrote:

There has been lots of discussion about the tax situation in regard
to multiline machines. I had thought that the majority opinion was
that a W2-G was NOT required, if the individual line payoff was less
than $1200.

Nope. When it comes down to it, it's the total payoff on a single
wager that counts on a play, not how the bet was allocated (it's still
a single bet).

The AC Hilton has a $.25 progressive 3-play that employs an
ineffective cap on the jackpot and it can only be assumed that the
apparent rationale for the cap is merely subterfuge for limiting the
payout. They limit each line's RF progression to $1199. I hit the RF
on one line with the meter at its max, plus 2 high pairs, and picked
up a W2-G for $1202.

Perhaps I am confusing this with a situation where a player scores a
$1000 RF does not cash out, wins more, and then cashes out a ticket
for $1200+, w/o generating a W2-G.

Not too long ago I heard from a Borgata player that a clueless
employee insisted on issuing a W2-G on a $1200+ cash out. (Bizarrely,
while machines there normally ticket any non W2-G cashout up to $3000
- presumably as a security precaution, this one locked up on a cashout
modestly in excess of the $1200.)

This isn't something I'd have expected from a Strip-class joint.

- H.

#8

If you have a bank or brokerage account that has no proven valid SS #
the institution must do the 28% backup witholding on interest. Even
if IRS ok with just signing the paper that ID is valid for a casino
it is hard to believe that backup witholding is not mandatory for the
casino without seeing the document. That paper is not worth 2 cents
to IRS once $$ paid out & you are gone & untraceable. Just an
observation...
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

misscraps wrote:
> Since then I always carry my Social Security card with me, as

well

> as a Driver's License. If you win a W2G jackpot you will have to
> give your SS number in any case, so why not carry proof of it

with

> you, to avoid hassle?

Security theft advisors recommend that no form of ID be carried that
discloses your SSN. For that matter, check out the advisory issued

by

the State of Arizona Department of Public Safety:

http://www.azvictims.com/identity/default.asp

Anyone who's been a victim of ID theft will tell you that precaution
is well worth the hassle of dealing with someone who makes an

invalid

request for SSN documentation (which is the case of any casino who
asks for proof ... your signed statement is all that the IRS

requires).

···

- H.

#9

Babe wrote:

...... that a W2-G was NOT required, if the individual line payoff
was less than $1200.

···

---------------------------------------------
In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter"harry.porter@v...>wrote:

............it's the total payoff on a single wager that counts on a
play, not how the bet was allocated (it's still a single bet).
---------------------------------------------
I'm absolutely sure you're correct, Harry. My point, however, is
that a possible interpretation, on a 3 play vp, could be one bet or
three bets (if all 3 lines are activated). I think that this ia a
very gray (even murky) area.
-----------------------------------------------

They limit each line's RF progression to $1199. I hit the RF
on one line with the meter at its max, plus 2 high pairs, and picked
up a W2-G for $1202.
------------------------------------------------

What rotten luck!.........I think.... (-:

Regards,

Babe

#10

Michael Boutot wrote:

If you have a bank or brokerage account that has no proven valid SS
# the institution must do the 28% backup witholding on interest.

I'll defer to others (including you, Michael) with authoritative
evidence on this topic. However, I strongly believe it's still the
case that when you open a new bank account you need only complete a
certification that the SSN (TIN) that you're providing is accurate
(subject to federal prosecution if you make a false statement).

I have accounts opened in the last 10 years for which I provided no
paper documentation of my TIN. Of course, I'll admit that regulations
may have changed since "9/11" ... but don't believe this to be the
case. I also expect that, as a US citizen, you can open an internet
account with any number of financial institutions with no more than
your certification.

Even if IRS ok with just signing the paper that ID is valid for a
casino it is hard to believe that backup witholding is not mandatory
for the casino without seeing the document. That paper is not worth
2 cents to IRS once $$ paid out & you are gone & untraceable. Just
an observation...

Keep in mind that a government issued photo identification is required
(which is far more difficult to forge than, say, my 33 year-old SS
card).

Threat of prosecution, and the likelihood of pursuing you if indeed
your ID is valid, is what I imagine that the IRS relies upon for
compliance.

- Harry

#11

jackessiebabe wrote:

I'm absolutely sure you're correct, Harry. My point, however, is
that a possible interpretation, on a 3 play vp, could be one bet or
three bets (if all 3 lines are activated). I think that this ia a
very gray (even murky) area.

No murk about it, Babe. IRS instructions strongly suggest this
interpretation and, more to the point, the casinos accept the bet as a
single wager. There's no aspect of its treatment that suggests the
casino treats it otherwise and their acceptance, as much as anything,
defines the wager.

Note, for example, the player cannot independently place wagers on the
various lines, but is restricted to uniform wagering on each line
(with the exception of a distribution of credits in excess of an even
multiple of the number of lines - e.g. in 3-play, a 10 credit wager
distributed 4,3,3)

- Harry

#12

<<My point, however, is
that a possible interpretation, on a 3 play vp, could be one bet or
three bets (if all 3 lines are activated). I think that this ia a
very gray (even murky) area. >>

When multi-line first came out there WAS some murkiness? However, it was soon cleared up - perhaps the casinos got an "answer" from the IRS for I have rarely heard of them deviating from this policy - it is one bet, no matter how many lines you play - and the TOTAL win from all the lines is the important number - over $1200 a W2G, under $1200 not.

However, not all casino employees are completely knowledgeable - so there may be the rare occasion that they do something wrong, i.e., trying to give you a W2G for a simple cashout of over $1200. Knowing the facts yourself will give you the chance to appeal to higher-ranking employees, like a supervisor. Now if you get over $1200 on one winning bet on a multi-line and they, incorrectly, don't give you a W2G, I wouldn't feel obliged to educate them! (Of course, I know EVERYONE keeps careful track of all session wins or losses and reports them accurately and completely on their income tax returns whether they get a W2G or not - don't they :slight_smile:

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards.
  NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
              Updated Second Edition of
             "The Frugal Gambler."

#13

This is what I recently obsevered. The gentleman next to me was
playing $.10 SuperTimes Pay on a 10 hand machine. He received a
royal on one of the hands for $400, but also was fortunate to have a
SuperTimes Pay multiplier of 3. The result was a $1,200 royal. He
also had an additional $3 in winnings on some of the other hands.
The result was watching him receive a W2G for a total winning of
$1,203 and hearing him calling this out to others around in a loud
frustratd voice.

Thanks,
Bob

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, misscraps@a... wrote:

First - W2Gs are issued for slot wins of over $1200 - regardless
to what demonination is played. If you play a multiline VP
machine, you will be given a W2G if your total payout is over
$1200 - even if it is say $400 on each line. On a single line
machine you would not have been given a W2g for $400 - but
because your Total Payout at one time is now $1200 - you get the
W2G.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" <futrend@y...> wrote:
This is what I recently obsevered. The gentleman next to me was
playing $.10 SuperTimes Pay on a 10 hand machine. He received a
royal on one of the hands for $400, but also was fortunate to have a
SuperTimes Pay multiplier of 3. The result was a $1,200 royal. He
also had an additional $3 in winnings on some of the other hands.
The result was watching him receive a W2G for a total winning of
$1,203 and hearing him calling this out to others around in a loud
frustratd voice.

Thanks,
Bob

···

--------------------------------------------

I certainly hoped that you sypathized with his unfortunate
happening! Perhaps next time, the royal will elude him and
he won't have cause for complaint.

Babe

#15

He seems to be a regular and popular player. I think he was making
fun of the situation and trying to be noticed. I have sat next to
him a number of times and he has yet to say a word to me. However,
he seems to know much about the personal life of a number of floor
personnel and to be on very friendly terms with them. I guess this
is not too interesting and I apologize for wasting anyone's time with
this. I originally responded because I personally witnessed the
answer to one of the quetions asked ealier!

Thanks,
Bob

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" <futrend@y...> wrote:
This is what I recently obsevered. The gentleman next to me was
playing $.10 SuperTimes Pay on a 10 hand machine. He received a
royal on one of the hands for $400, but also was fortunate to have

a

···

SuperTimes Pay multiplier of 3. The result was a $1,200 royal. He
also had an additional $3 in winnings on some of the other hands.
The result was watching him receive a W2G for a total winning of
$1,203 and hearing him calling this out to others around in a loud
frustratd voice.

Thanks,
Bob
--------------------------------------------

I certainly hoped that you sypathized with his unfortunate
happening! Perhaps next time, the royal will elude him and
he won't have cause for complaint.

Babe