vpFREE2 Forums

W2-G's: Time to raise the $1200 threshold limit

#1

This was the year my husband I ventured into the tricky land of $1
VP. The good news: we hit several $4000 royals and numerous other
higher paying jackpots on very volitile games. The bad news: we
still lost overall, and our many W2G's are added to our gross yearly
income which will probably put us in another tax bracket.
Furthermore, I could only imagine a IRS agent saying "You mean you
still lost with all those W2-G?"...
I believe the threshold of $1200 was established when the majority
of the gambling public was playing slots at the quarter and below
level. The age of Video Poker has slowly increased dramatically over
the past 7 or 8 years...unlike slots, this game is usually played
for long periods at a time, with a bankroll, MUCH LIKE BLACKJACK,
BACARRACT< CRAPS and other chip games where you can win pots of
$1000's of dollars and you would NEVER get a tax form! This I
believe is discriminatory, outdated tax regulation that needs severe
and immediate threshold adjustment.

We are a large group here with many of us as video poker player
aficionado's...I am not good with trying to keep a detailed dairy of
the machine's number, the kinds of hands and payouts I received,
what I started with, blah blah blah...I'm suppossed to be having
fun!!! I am realizing, as many of you may be, that jumping up to the
dollar level could put you in serious way tax ramifications EVEN
WHEN YOU LOSE. How about we start some sort of unified action,
perhaps just starting with a petition---The best way would be to
find a sponser or a much visual champion to initiate action on the
federal level to raise this W2-G limit. Perhaps a high level casino
executive, mogel etc would be interested in taking it on---think of
the less work they would have with diminished need for W2-G's? Think
of the positive PR and goodwill that could come their way? We need
to bring that limit into the 21st century.

Anybody interested in this cause? I honestly believe we would all
benefit from it. We also have many member meets, and perhaps this
could be good place to brainstorm and or rally, and/or invite
champions. Is anyone interested in helping to get the ball
rolling???

Note: I also posted this on the LVA, of which I am an active poster
and member.

Rina, from the Poconos

#2

This was the year my husband I ventured into the tricky land of $1
VP. The good news: we hit several $4000 royals and numerous other
higher paying jackpots on very volitile games. The bad news: we
still lost overall, and our many W2G's are added to our gross

yearly

income which will probably put us in another tax bracket.

Gaming losses, up to the amount of gaming wins, are deductable.
Therefore, since you lost on the year, this alone will not put you in
another tax bracket, at least for the Federal Income Tax...as long as
you itemize your deductions...not sure on the state level, as I have
heard that some states do not allow deduction of gaming
losses...those greedy b*st*rds!

Yes, it will have residual impacts on certain calculations since
gaming wins, prior to deducting gaming losses, are included in AGI
(adjusted gross income). This will make your AGI inflated and will
have an impact on itemizations that are allowed after expenses reach
a percentage of AGI...e.g. medical deductions are allowed after
exceeding 7.5% of AGI.

All gaming wins must be reported and included in your tax return, not
just those for which you received a W2...so changing the W2
threshhold should not have an impact on the taxes you pay.

Don the Dentist

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mssensuale" <rina@p...> wrote:

#3

Hate to reply as pros with IRS ties get nasty but it's not a wage
income anyway. You need to be on Sched C reporting as 1099 Misc
Income from a Business by now. $8,000 income can be a small business,
not a hobby and you have expenses to produce. Actual rqt.is as
little as notation "Buy In" on a check to casino cashier and being in
casino where THEIR records support time. As yet, most comps are
untaxed but will come; sure as death and guess what... What ya say
ric? CD

#4

You may get a band of angry gamblers to complain, but I doubt that it
will change anything.
The vast percentage of jackpots under $1200 are NOT reported and yet,
they should be. IRS knows that everyone is attempting to cheat when
they do not report, but they do not pursue the players.
Raising the limits will merely mean that more gambling wins go
unreported.
You are taxed on 5c of bank interest but there is NO report of an
$1199 win. I think that we should be thankful for this rather than
provoking the IRS where they just might get tougherm rather than more
lenient in their pursuit of the untaxed winnings.

···

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:44:41 -0000, you wrote:

This was the year my husband I ventured into the tricky land of $1
VP. The good news: we hit several $4000 royals and numerous other
higher paying jackpots on very volitile games. The bad news: we
still lost overall, and our many W2G's are added to our gross yearly
income which will probably put us in another tax bracket.
Furthermore, I could only imagine a IRS agent saying "You mean you
still lost with all those W2-G?"...
I believe the threshold of $1200 was established when the majority
of the gambling public was playing slots at the quarter and below
level. The age of Video Poker has slowly increased dramatically over
the past 7 or 8 years...unlike slots, this game is usually played
for long periods at a time, with a bankroll, MUCH LIKE BLACKJACK,
BACARRACT< CRAPS and other chip games where you can win pots of
$1000's of dollars and you would NEVER get a tax form! This I
believe is discriminatory, outdated tax regulation that needs severe
and immediate threshold adjustment.

We are a large group here with many of us as video poker player
aficionado's...I am not good with trying to keep a detailed dairy of
the machine's number, the kinds of hands and payouts I received,
what I started with, blah blah blah...I'm suppossed to be having
fun!!! I am realizing, as many of you may be, that jumping up to the
dollar level could put you in serious way tax ramifications EVEN
WHEN YOU LOSE. How about we start some sort of unified action,
perhaps just starting with a petition---The best way would be to
find a sponser or a much visual champion to initiate action on the
federal level to raise this W2-G limit. Perhaps a high level casino
executive, mogel etc would be interested in taking it on---think of
the less work they would have with diminished need for W2-G's? Think
of the positive PR and goodwill that could come their way? We need
to bring that limit into the 21st century.

Anybody interested in this cause? I honestly believe we would all
benefit from it. We also have many member meets, and perhaps this
could be good place to brainstorm and or rally, and/or invite
champions. Is anyone interested in helping to get the ball
rolling???

Note: I also posted this on the LVA, of which I am an active poster
and member.

Rina, from the Poconos

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

#5

I'm a little new here, but it seems to me that you are looking for a
way to commit tax fraud. This is illegal. I do not mean to cast
strong judgement, but I think it is important given many people's
alreandy negative view of gambling that we not associate ourselves
with those who would defraud the government.

You ought to report all wins as income. The W2-G is just an easy way
to keep track of some of your larger wins.

The bad news: we

still lost overall, and our many W2G's are added to our gross

yearly

income which will probably put us in another tax bracket.
Furthermore, I could only imagine a IRS agent saying "You mean you
still lost with all those W2-G?"...
I believe the threshold of $1200 was established when the majority
of the gambling public was playing slots at the quarter and below
level. The age of Video Poker has slowly increased dramatically

over

the past 7 or 8 years...unlike slots, this game is usually played
for long periods at a time, with a bankroll, MUCH LIKE BLACKJACK,
BACARRACT< CRAPS and other chip games where you can win pots of
$1000's of dollars and you would NEVER get a tax form! This I
believe is discriminatory, outdated tax regulation that needs

severe

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mssensuale" <rina@p...> wrote:

and immediate threshold adjustment.

#6

Actually there is NO report of bank interest under $10, either.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: elliotts@joimail.com [mailto:ellio…@…com]
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:14 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] W2-G's: Time to raise the $1200 threshold limit

..You are taxed on 5c of bank interest but there is NO report of an
$1199 win. I think that we should be thankful for this rather than
provoking the IRS where they just might get tougherm rather than more
lenient in their pursuit of the untaxed winnings.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

You are taxed on 5c of bank interest but there is NO report of an
$1199 win.

That being said, I wonder why more casinos don't make $1200 pays into $1199
or $1195. For example, when the Borgata opened, many of their 9/6 VP
machines (even at the $0.25 level) had the SF payout at 239 credits instead
of 250 -- which is what the $1195 payout would be on a $5 machine. This was
later fixed... but I find that many many machines in AC have $1200 payouts.
It's frustrating to, say, finally hit a straight flush on a pick 'em, only
to have to waith 1/2 an hour and sign yet another W2-G.

I would think that the casino would like to reduce its paperwork for $1200
pays, and that dropping one unit off the pay results in both happier players
and happier casino accounting departments.

I wonder if the IRS gives the casinos hassles about dropping the pays down?

#8

The fp $ pickems I've seen in reno and vehas have the straight flush set to
1199. I am not too surprised that atlantic city doesn'.

Sabyl
sabyl@speakeasy.org
A++ G++ PKR+ !PEG B TB ADB M

"Life is like a game of cards. The hand that is dealt you represents
determinism; the way you play it is free will."
--Jawaharlal Nehru

···

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, John F. Thomas, Jr., Esq. wrote:

> You are taxed on 5c of bank interest but there is NO report of an
> $1199 win.

That being said, I wonder why more casinos don't make $1200 pays into $1199
or $1195. For example, when the Borgata opened, many of their 9/6 VP
machines (even at the $0.25 level) had the SF payout at 239 credits instead
of 250 -- which is what the $1195 payout would be on a $5 machine. This was
later fixed... but I find that many many machines in AC have $1200 payouts.
It's frustrating to, say, finally hit a straight flush on a pick 'em, only
to have to waith 1/2 an hour and sign yet another W2-G.

I would think that the casino would like to reduce its paperwork for $1200
pays, and that dropping one unit off the pay results in both happier players
and happier casino accounting departments.

I wonder if the IRS gives the casinos hassles about dropping the pays down?

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

#9

A lot of place's in Atlantic City do. I hit a straight flush on PickEm at Resort's, and the handpay was $299.75. I was told a couple casino's just give you the $300,but never seen it.

Ned C.
The Wild Joker

The fp $ pickems I've seen in reno and vehas have the straight flush set to
1199. I am not too surprised that atlantic city doesn'.

Sabyl
sabyl@speakeasy.org
A++ G++ PKR+ !PEG B TB ADB M

"Life is like a game of cards. The hand that is dealt you represents
determinism; the way you play it is free will."
--Jawaharlal Nehru

···

sabyl <sabyl@speakeasy.org> wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, John F. Thomas, Jr., Esq. wrote:

> You are taxed on 5c of bank interest but there is NO report of an
> $1199 win.

That being said, I wonder why more casinos don't make $1200 pays into $1199
or $1195. For example, when the Borgata opened, many of their 9/6 VP
machines (even at the $0.25 level) had the SF payout at 239 credits instead
of 250 -- which is what the $1195 payout would be on a $5 machine. This was
later fixed... but I find that many many machines in AC have $1200 payouts.
It's frustrating to, say, finally hit a straight flush on a pick 'em, only
to have to waith 1/2 an hour and sign yet another W2-G.

I would think that the casino would like to reduce its paperwork for $1200
pays, and that dropping one unit off the pay results in both happier players
and happier casino accounting departments.

I wonder if the IRS gives the casinos hassles about dropping the pays down?

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

I'm sure the IRS sees this a lot. You're clearly gambling more than
the average American, so I'd say it's time you started keeping
detailed records that the IRS will acccept, and deal with the fact
that you are now on the IRS radar. The IRS just wants a reasonable
record of your activity.

I think it's a bad idea to make a stink about the W2-G limit. I
heard once about a guy who was paying higher property taxes than his
neighbors, so he tried to get his levy reduced, but the town raised
his neighbors' taxes instead.

So, to make a stink about the W2-G limit might cause the Feds to
reduce it instead of raising it. 'elliots' said this earlier, and I
agree with him.

Gary

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mssensuale" <rina@p...> wrote:

Furthermore, I could only imagine a IRS agent saying "You mean you
still lost with all those W2-G?"...