Greetings from Las Vegas, Home of the Monthly vpFREE Lunch :
I just deleted Message # 8829 and apologize to the sender for forwarding
a private message to the list. I routinely forward most of my Emails to
Susan, and inadvertently clicked "vpFREE" rather than "Susan" in this
instance.
Best wishes,
Tom Sims
... The Smart Money was on Goliath ...
Measure with a micrometer - Mark with chalk - Cut with an axe
Suggested reading on current status of internet gambling:
http://gamblingandthelaw.com/index.html
click on "columns" and look at titles. Good stuff.
lb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The internet gambling discussion on gamblingandthelaw.com suggests
that it's not currently illegal for an individual to engage in online
wagering activity, although the various recent proposals for an
anti-internet gambling statute would make this a misdemeanor (one
unlikely to be enforced).
Enforcement focus is on the gambling enterprises themselves and the
agencies that facilitate the transfer of funds by wagerers.
Prosecutions have mostly involved individuals who have actively
managed "off shore" gambling business from US territory.
So long as the business is maintained and managed outside the US the
only aspect really open to enforcement is the funding of wagers.
Originally, funding of most online wagers was handled through
"purchases" by credit card. Most, if not all, reputable credit card
providers have ceased business with these firms under pressure of
threatened prosecution. That left internet gambling sites scrambling
for other easy funding mechanisms.
Cryptologic, a Canadian firm operating various gambling websites,
formed a wholly owned funding conduit (ecash) through whom credit card
purchases could be made. However, it appears that credit card issuers
are no longer accepting charges from ecash. Paypal served as another
funding conduit, however, it is ceasing (or has ceased) to accept
charges for internet gambling with the pending acquisition by Ebay.
Many online gaming firms are now seeking out non-US based cash
transfer firms that operate in a similar manner as Paypal.
Prosecuting this funding conduit is much more tricky since, so long as
the funding agency is legitimate and has diverse customers, payments
by US credit card companies are not illegal. And the operations of
the off-shore funding agency are beyond the reach of US regulators.
An intricate web of legislation is eventually going to be necessary to
keep US citizens from internet wagering. As "mc" suggests,
legalizing, regulating and taxing internet gambling is the more
pragmatic direction to take.
As a footnote, the announcement by MGM that it intends to proceed into
the online gaming field but does not intend to do business with US
citizens can be treated as on the "up and up". They won't be turning
a blind eye to US participation.
If you think otherwise, just wait until you try to get them to mail
you winnings. Unlike other offshore entities, the ultimate US
ownership of the MGM enterprise will ensure a strong incentive not to
draw the ire of US regulators.
- Harry
Assembly Bill 466 in Nevada was proposed to legalize online casinos. I'm not sure if it has been moved on yet, or whether it was voted up or down. It had the support of the Nevada gaming establishment. It's only a matter of time.
Advance Deposit Wagering has been enacted in California and makes it legal to bet on horses online. Prop 1A already has made Nevada style gambling legal in Indian casinos here (craps excepted). Put the two together and it seems only a matter of time before online casinos are legal in California.
As HP wrote, most enforcement is against casinos, not players, and the strategy now is to legalize it piecemeal in various jurisdictions.
lb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In vpFREE@y..., "Lawrence Boxer" <ljboxer@e...> wrote:
Advance Deposit Wagering has been enacted in California and makes
it legal to bet on horses online.
The same is true here in Philly; you can open an account via the
internet, fund it via credit card, and place bets online. I'm trying
to understand how this is not internet gambling. . . hmmmmmm
mc
The same is true here in Philly; you can open an account via the
internet, fund it via credit card, and place bets online. I'm trying
to understand how this is not internet gambling. . . hmmmmmm<<
(smile) Interesting point about the credit cards, is that a federal judge threw out a case against Visa and Mastercard last year citing the Federal Wire Act as applying only to sports betting!! So again, it's a matter of jurisdictions acting on their own in dealing with it.
----- Original Message -----
From: mcuddington
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:04 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: internet gambling articles
--- In vpFREE@y..., "Lawrence Boxer" <ljboxer@e...> wrote:
>
> Advance Deposit Wagering has been enacted in California and makes
it legal to bet on horses online.
>
The same is true here in Philly; you can open an account via the
internet, fund it via credit card, and place bets online. I'm trying
to understand how this is not internet gambling. . . hmmmmmm
mc
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Suggested reading on current status of internet gambling:
http://gamblingandthelaw.com/index.html
The idea that laws governing communication are different from laws
governing gaming makes sense to me. However, I have to wonder just
how a government regulatory body gets to decide that the data in
question is tied to gaming. Don't they have to view all information
as a generic communication. If they do, then aren't they prohibited
from analyzing the content. Such a restriction would seem to make
the application of gaming laws moot until they obtain a warrant for
permission to eavesdrop. Am I still missing something?
QZ
That is not illegal because the Federal Statute addresses illegal gambling activity via a "wire". Since your state has made that specific form of internet gaming legal, within your state, it's not a federal violation to engage in such activity.
----- Original Message -----
From: mcuddington
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 1:04 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: internet gambling articles
--- In vpFREE@y..., "Lawrence Boxer" <ljboxer@e...> wrote:
>
> Advance Deposit Wagering has been enacted in California and makes
it legal to bet on horses online.
>
The same is true here in Philly; you can open an account via the
internet, fund it via credit card, and place bets online. I'm trying
to understand how this is not internet gambling. . . hmmmmmm
mc
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Federal Wire Act applies to sports gambling in all United States Federal Districts. There is a question in at least one Federal Circuit as to whether the act applies to other forms of gambling. You are still subject to arrest and prosecution in the District, as this question has not been resolved on the Federal Appellate Court or U.S. Supreme Court level.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Boxer
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: internet gambling articles
>>The same is true here in Philly; you can open an account via the
internet, fund it via credit card, and place bets online. I'm trying
to understand how this is not internet gambling. . . hmmmmmm<<
(smile) Interesting point about the credit cards, is that a federal judge threw out a case against Visa and Mastercard last year citing the Federal Wire Act as applying only to sports betting!! So again, it's a matter of jurisdictions acting on their own in dealing with it.
----- Original Message -----
From: mcuddington
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:04 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: internet gambling articles
--- In vpFREE@y..., "Lawrence Boxer" <ljboxer@e...> wrote:
>
> Advance Deposit Wagering has been enacted in California and makes
it legal to bet on horses online.
>
The same is true here in Philly; you can open an account via the
internet, fund it via credit card, and place bets online. I'm trying
to understand how this is not internet gambling. . . hmmmmmm
mc
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Which is exactly why new gambling laws keep being proposed in Congress. The want to address these issues and make it easier to prosecute on the Federal level.
----- Original Message -----
From: Quad Zilla
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:15 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] internet gambling articles
Suggested reading on current status of internet gambling:
http://gamblingandthelaw.com/index.html
The idea that laws governing communication are different from laws
governing gaming makes sense to me. However, I have to wonder just
how a government regulatory body gets to decide that the data in
question is tied to gaming. Don't they have to view all information
as a generic communication. If they do, then aren't they prohibited
from analyzing the content. Such a restriction would seem to make
the application of gaming laws moot until they obtain a warrant for
permission to eavesdrop. Am I still missing something?
QZ
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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vpFREE Home Page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE
vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]