Doesn't that have more to do with the machines being subject to NV
regulations regardless of where they are used, then with NJ rules? I seem to recall
something about NV gaming machines needing to abide by NV rules....even when put
into service outside of NV.
In a message dated 1/7/2005 12:20:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz writes:
However, it is generally believed that Jersey VP is random just like NV.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<Doesn't that have more to do with the machines being subject to NV
regulations regardless of where they are used, then with NJ rules? I seem to recall
something about NV gaming machines needing to abide by NV rules....even when put
into service outside of NV.>>
This has been true for many years. It is not impossible for a casino to put in a new chip but that is a very technical job. New Jersey solves the "problem" the easier way - just offer bad pay tables!!!!
However, this picture will be changing in the near future, when IGT and other NV companies start manufacturing machines for Indian casinos that use "central determination." I'm thinking NV regulations will have to change for NV manufacturers who make and sell machines in states with different requirements.
I have talked to IGT executives - but it is still too earlier to see how this will all shake out.
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards and for the
Frugal series of books. Now is the time you might
need "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Its not clear to me there is anything in the NV regs that say anything
about machines for outside of Nevada. Anyone have the regulation that states
this?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jean Scott [mailto:QueenofCo…@…biz]
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:19 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] VP Payout
<<Doesn't that have more to do with the machines being subject to NV
regulations regardless of where they are used, then with NJ rules? I seem
to recall
something about NV gaming machines needing to abide by NV rules....even when
put
into service outside of NV.>>
This has been true for many years. It is not impossible for a casino to put
in a new chip but that is a very technical job. New Jersey solves the
"problem" the easier way - just offer bad pay tables!!!!
However, this picture will be changing in the near future, when IGT and
other NV companies start manufacturing machines for Indian casinos that use
"central determination." I'm thinking NV regulations will have to change
for NV manufacturers who make and sell machines in states with different
requirements.
I have talked to IGT executives - but it is still too earlier to see how
this will all shake out.
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards and for the
Frugal series of books. Now is the time you might
need "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<It's not clear to me there is anything in the NV regs that say anything
about machines for outside of Nevada. Anyone have the regulation that states
this?>>
I'd like to know this too - the exact regulation. I have heard this for years and I even talked to IGT executives about this and they said it was true.
________________________________________
Jean $�ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards and for the
Frugal series of books. Now is the time you might
need "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler."
i'm not a lawyer, but i think it might be this:
http://leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-463.html#NRS463Sec650
might also be buried in here somewhere:
http://gaming.nv.gov/stats_regs/reg14.pdf
http://gaming.nv.gov/stats_regs/reg14_tech_stnds.pdf
<<It's not clear to me there is anything in the NV regs that say
anything
about machines for outside of Nevada. Anyone have the regulation
that states
this?>>
I'd like to know this too - the exact regulation. I have heard this
for
years and I even talked to IGT executives about this and they said
it was
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...> wrote:
true.
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards and for the
Frugal series of books. Now is the time you might
need "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler."
IGT has over 2000 different configurations for a "slot" machine. Each
game produced must meet the requirements for a given Jurisdiction.
These Jurisdictional requirements can be as simple as an age
restriction label (West Virginia), or max bet allowed (Colorado is
$5) or as complicated as removing the processor, shipping it
separately and filing papers with the Gaming comission. (i've heard
Mississippi requires this even if a machine is moved from one
building to another). Almost all Jurisdictions require every part of
the machine to pass compliance, including programs (obviously), bill
acceptor, processor, ezpay printer, communications devices, cabinet
construction, Etc.
Many of the programs are written specifically for a given
jurisdiction and all are clearly labeled with the jurisdiction. New
Jersey law does not allow base games over 100% so the game chips
don't have any +100% games in them. Game chips are not hard to
replace but generally require special keys or procedures to set up.
This is to avoid screw-ups (intentional or unintentional) such as a 1
$ token giving you $100 in credits. (as an aside, NJ games don't
accept $1 bills. don't know if that's a law or a preference).
IGT and VLC (which IGT bought out) has been selling "central
determination" machines for a while. Technically they are called
Class II or bingo or lottery games. These aren't gaffed either, just
really bad paytables.
As far as I know, all games are completely random, including slot
machines. The payout %'s are determined by the paytables. Most of the
newer games have a wide range of paytables available and built in to
the pgms(again, possibly determined by Jur requirements).
I think everyone who goes thru a bad streak thinks a game could be
gaffed, even me. Funny how we never question them when we're ahead of
expectations. The only way to reassure yourself is to keep very good
records and play A LOT of hands.
stu
PS. Jean Scott's my hero (really)
<<Doesn't that have more to do with the machines being subject to
NV
regulations regardless of where they are used, then with NJ rules?
I seem to recall
something about NV gaming machines needing to abide by NV
rules....even when put
into service outside of NV.>>
This has been true for many years. It is not impossible for a
casino to put in a new chip but that is a very technical job. New
Jersey solves the "problem" the easier way - just offer bad pay
tables!!!!
However, this picture will be changing in the near future, when IGT
and other NV companies start manufacturing machines for Indian
casinos that use "central determination." I'm thinking NV
regulations will have to change for NV manufacturers who make and
sell machines in states with different requirements.
I have talked to IGT executives - but it is still too earlier to
see how this will all shake out.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...> wrote:
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards and for the
Frugal series of books. Now is the time you might
need "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler."[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nightoftheiguana2000 wrote:
i'm not a lawyer, but i think it might be this:
http://leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-463.html#NRS463Sec650
might also be buried in here somewhere:
http://gaming.nv.gov/stats_regs/reg14.pdf
http://gaming.nv.gov/stats_regs/reg14_tech_stnds.pdf
Jean Scott wrote:
> I'd like to know this too - the exact regulation. I have heard this
> for years and I even talked to IGT executives about this and they
> said it was true.
From a cursory read of Reg 14 (linked by iggy), I presume the
applicable language is in Sec. 14.170 par. 1(b).
Paraphrasing, it states that all NV manufactured equipment distributed
within NV must, in order to be exported, have the Board approval
number affixed on the program storage media.
This suggests that if you're playing a game outside of NV which has
been approved for use in NV, it will be fair.
However, I don't see (at least within this specific reg) anything that
would preclude a NV manufacturer from exporting a machine that they
haven't submitted to NV for approval.
Note also, this provision applies only to NV manufacturers. I'm not
sure what the status of equipment manufactured outside of NV but in
use in NV would be under this or other reg.
- Harry