If AC VP is the same as Vegas, how come in the Casino Player Magazine,
the hold % listed in the back show (for example) $5 slots holding 92%-
93%. The VP hold is included as "SLOT" hold. Come on folks, the VP in
AC uses secondary programming !
Yes I know bad players etc, but these figures are consistantly 4-5%
less than Vegas hold. This helps prove my point. Thanks for all of
your input, I know I'm not the only one feeling mugged.
Ron
VP in AC
-The hold isn't the same as the EV in games that involve skill.
-"Slot" machines includes both reel machines (spin or or video), video
poker, and other games (video keno, video BJ...), and the EV of reel
machines can be set to near-arbitrary values.
-The fact that the average hold over all slots is lower doesn't mean
that VP machines are rigged.
-Do you have actual evidence that the VP machines cheat? I mean, one
or several behaviors that can be measured to be consistently away from
their expected value on long enough periods. Ideally, the frequency of
dealt pairs on a 52-card machine.
JBQ
What jurisdictions report vp hold separately from slots? And since vp is
generally worse in AC than LV, would not that account for some of that
bigger hold in AC?
Chandler
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
teacuplily
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 9:12 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] VP in AC
If AC VP is the same as Vegas, how come in the Casino Player Magazine,
the hold % listed in the back show (for example) $5 slots holding 92%-
93%. The VP hold is included as "SLOT" hold. Come on folks, the VP in
AC uses secondary programming !
Yes I know bad players etc, but these figures are consistantly 4-5%
less than Vegas hold. This helps prove my point. Thanks for all of
your input, I know I'm not the only one feeling mugged.
Ron
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
Even if some do report VP separately from other slot machines, I
believe that has little practical significance for us. We're primarily
worried about the EV of the best machines here, not about the average
hold. I'd gamble in a casino that has a high reported hold rate as
long as there's one good VP machine (there's even a reasonable
possibility that such a casino would have good comps).
JBQ
···
On 3/6/06, Chandler <omnibibulous1@comcast.net> wrote:
What jurisdictions report vp hold separately from slots?
teacuplily wrote:
If AC VP is the same as Vegas, how come in the Casino Player
Magazine, the hold % listed in the back show (for example) $5 slots
holding 92%-93%. The VP hold is included as "SLOT" hold. Come on
folks, the VP in AC uses secondary programming !
Yes I know bad players etc, but these figures are consistantly 4-5%
less than Vegas hold. This helps prove my point. Thanks for all of
your input, I know I'm not the only one feeling mugged.
Ron
Ron, anyone who's played actively in both markets will tell you that
AC JW, one of the poorest plays to be found, gets hit HARD in AC.
Plus, you likely won't see more DDB played will less skill in AC.
(not to mention that keno is a favorite in AC).
But, even that aside, as was noted by someone else - if standard slot
play comprises a higher % of coin-in in AC, that alone would explain
hold differences. There's no way to determine if this is the case
from the reported info, but it wouldn't surprise me. And bear in
mind, FWIW, there's no "full pay" deuces to be found in AC.
But, hey, Ron ... I'm satisfied that you're not comfortable with the
fairness of play in AC and I'm cool with that. I don't think you need
look for any more input than you've received to date -- run with your
gut feeling here and I think you'll be happiest.
- Harry
Hi Ron ,
I believe if I felt as strongly about this issue as you apparently do .....I would not play VP in AC. I do not like playing in a negative state of mind or if something else is weighing heavily on my mind. I feel I play my best when I'm at my best. If you aren't comfortable and confident about the play in AC, it can't be very enjoyable for you anyway, can it ?
Good luck !
Nita
> If AC VP is the same as Vegas, how come in the Casino Player
> Magazine, the hold % listed in the back show (for example) $5 slots
> holding 92%-93%. The VP hold is included as "SLOT" hold. Come on
> folks, the VP in AC uses secondary programming !
> Yes I know bad players etc, but these figures are consistantly 4-5%
> less than Vegas hold. This helps prove my point. Thanks for all of
> your input, I know I'm not the only one feeling mugged.
> Ron
Ron, anyone who's played actively in both markets will tell you that
AC JW, one of the poorest plays to be found, gets hit HARD in AC.
Plus, you likely won't see more DDB played will less skill in AC.
(not to mention that keno is a favorite in AC).
But, even that aside, as was noted by someone else - if standard slot
play comprises a higher % of coin-in in AC, that alone would explain
hold differences. There's no way to determine if this is the case
from the reported info, but it wouldn't surprise me. And bear in
mind, FWIW, there's no "full pay" deuces to be found in AC.
But, hey, Ron ... I'm satisfied that you're not comfortable with the
fairness of play in AC and I'm cool with that. I don't think you need
look for any more input than you've received to date -- run with your
gut feeling here and I think you'll be happiest.
- Harry
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
SPONSORED LINKS
Online gambling Outdoor recreation Recreation software Gambling
···
Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote: teacuplily wrote:
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Ron ,
I believe if I felt as strongly about this issue as you
apparently do .....I would not play VP in AC. I do not like playing
in a negative state of mind or if something else is weighing heavily
on my mind. I feel I play my best when I'm at my best. If you
aren't comfortable and confident about the play in AC, it can't be
very enjoyable for you anyway, can it ?
Good luck !
Nita
Harry Porter <harry.porter@...> wrote: teacuplily wrote:
> If AC VP is the same as Vegas, how come in the Casino Player
> Magazine, the hold % listed in the back show (for example) $5
slots
> holding 92%-93%. The VP hold is included as "SLOT" hold. Come
on
> folks, the VP in AC uses secondary programming !
> Yes I know bad players etc, but these figures are consistantly
4-5%
> less than Vegas hold. This helps prove my point. Thanks for all
of
> your input, I know I'm not the only one feeling mugged.
> Ron
Ron, anyone who's played actively in both markets will tell you
that
AC JW, one of the poorest plays to be found, gets hit HARD in AC.
Plus, you likely won't see more DDB played will less skill in AC.
(not to mention that keno is a favorite in AC).
But, even that aside, as was noted by someone else - if standard
slot
play comprises a higher % of coin-in in AC, that alone would
explain
hold differences. There's no way to determine if this is the case
from the reported info, but it wouldn't surprise me. And bear in
mind, FWIW, there's no "full pay" deuces to be found in AC.
But, hey, Ron ... I'm satisfied that you're not comfortable with
the
fairness of play in AC and I'm cool with that. I don't think you
need
look for any more input than you've received to date -- run with
your
gut feeling here and I think you'll be happiest.
- Harry
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
SPONSORED LINKS
Online
gambling Outdoor
recreation Recreation
software
Gambling
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "vpFREE" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Let me tell you about my experience on AC VP. I just started going to
the Showboat 1 year ago. I play $.25 DDB & DBAF. I do go quite a bit.
Last year I put $450K thru on VP only. I don't keep track of my wins
or losses thruout the year. When I got my win loss statement from
them a few weeks ago I was surprised that my total loss was -$130 for
the year. So far this year I'm ahead. That does not include my
cashback, comp plane fares to Vegas & Reno, free rooms & food, show
tickets etc... If you know WHAT to play & HOW to play it AC VP is
just as good as anyplace else today.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, anita walker <ab4nita@...> wrote:
I don't have a lot of time but the reason slot avg is less in NJ is
that casino receipts are taxed at a higher rate forcing them to offer
lower-return games. This has absolutely nothing to do with how the VP
operates but it does explain why there are few 99%+ games to be
found. Don't forget NJ casinos also pay $3 for every car parked
whether they collect this fee or not.
···
At 07:11 PM 3/6/2006, you wrote:
If AC VP is the same as Vegas, how come in the Casino Player Magazine,
the hold % listed in the back show (for example) $5 slots holding 92%-
93%. The VP hold is included as "SLOT" hold. Come on folks, the VP in
AC uses secondary programming !
Yes I know bad players etc, but these figures are consistantly 4-5%
less than Vegas hold. This helps prove my point. Thanks for all of
your input, I know I'm not the only one feeling mugged.
Ron
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Whoops. My response was, of course, to this one, not the other. Sorry .
···
At 07:11 PM 3/6/2006, you wrote:
If AC VP is the same as Vegas, how come in the Casino Player Magazine,
the hold % listed in the back show (for example) $5 slots holding 92%-
93%. The VP hold is included as "SLOT" hold. Come on folks, the VP in
AC uses secondary programming !
Yes I know bad players etc, but these figures are consistantly 4-5%
less than Vegas hold. This helps prove my point. Thanks for all of
your input, I know I'm not the only one feeling mugged.
Ron
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As far as I know no jurisdiction reports VP separately since for
regulatory purposes all machines are treated the same.
···
At 08:51 PM 3/6/2006, you wrote:
What jurisdictions report vp hold separately from slots? And since vp is
generally worse in AC than LV, would not that account for some of that
bigger hold in AC?Chandler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No argument here. I simply have never heard of any jurisdiction where that
slot/vp differentiation was made.
Chandler
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Jean-Baptiste Queru
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 1:47 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] VP in AC
Even if some do report VP separately from other slot machines, I
believe that has little practical significance for us. We're primarily
worried about the EV of the best machines here, not about the average
hold. I'd gamble in a casino that has a high reported hold rate as
long as there's one good VP machine (there's even a reasonable
possibility that such a casino would have good comps).
JBQ
On 3/6/06, Chandler <omnibibulous1@comcast.net> wrote:
What jurisdictions report vp hold separately from slots?
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links