So if I am understanding you correctly, all class 1 and class 2 machines are either bingo or pull tab based. VLT's are a different class altogether, and Nevada type machines are also in their own different class based on true RNG driven results.
So what are the distinguishing characteristics of a Class 3 machine, and how do they differ from Nevada style machines?
Thanks-rob
________________________________
From: Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 2:28:15 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] VLT question
Howard,
Your information is somewhat misleading since you are using terms
like Class 2 and 3 incorrectly. Class I, II and III gaming applies
ONLY to Indian casinos in the US. The terms are very specific and
could easily mislead people if misused.
Slots and Video Poker come in several different forms. What is
generally referred to as Nevada-type machines are essentially
stand-alone games where an RNG program determines which physical stop
on each reel is displayed (independently of each other reel) or which
card is displayed with each card having an equal chance of being
displayed (unless the card has been previously dealt during that game
in which case the chance is 0).
The most common alternative to Nevada-style games are either
Bingo-based or Pull-tab based where the underlying Bingo or Pull-tab
game is played and the result displayed by setting the reels of a
slot or the cards in a VP game. This can lead to difficulties when
you are allowed to draw to a hand in VP. For example, if you are
dealt 4 of a kind and throw 1 of those cards there is no way to draw
a hand of equal value (remember the result was pre-determined when
the game started). To overcome this these games either have a "genie"
or match-number feature that will allow the machine to "correct" to
the proper result. These are not "unfair" as Howard puts it, they are
simply the same as slot machines with a "fun" feature to make the
customer involved in the game. These games are most often found in
Class II Indian casinos but are legal in most commercial
jurisdictions. I am not aware of any commercial jurisdiction where
you can find Bingo or Pull-tab based games. They are sometimes mixed
in with Class III games in some Class III Indian casinos for many
reasons which I won't go into now.
VLT's are found in states where the State Lottery runs the games.
There are many of these states. What distinguishes a VLT from other
games is that it must always be connected to the central accounting
computer and will stop working if this connection fails. Nevada-type
machines, while almost always connected to a central accounting
computer will log activity and continue to operate if the link goes
down. In most states the VLT's operate like Nevada-style games. This
is true whether the game contains its own RNG and game chip or
whether the central lottery computer contains these.
The only 2 jurisdictions where VLT's do not work like Nevada-style
machines are New York State Racinos (not Indian casinos in NY) and in
Washington State (where all casinos are Indian). In these 2 places
the machines are similar to Bingo-based machines except that they
have lottery-style scratch cards determining the result and then
display the pre-determined result. In NY State every Racino is tied
to the State Lottery. In Washington State each Tribe operates what is
effectively a Tribal Lottery system and each is independent from the others.
Hope this is clear.
Now to answer the original question. There are 2 racinos in Indiana,
Hoosier Park and Indiana Downs. Both are located in central Indiana
and neither is operated by the Indiana Lottery (if there is one). The
machines in these 2 venues, like those in the 10 riverboats in
Indiana are all Nevada-style to the best of my knowledge. They are
not VLT's of any type. However, as I said above except for NY and
Wash VLT's operate exactly like Nevada-style games regardless of
whether they use a central game server or not.
Bill
At 06:41 AM 12/14/2009, you wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Knit30@aol.com
>Sent: Dec 14, 2009 4:10 AM
>To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [vpFREE] VLT question
>
>Indiana is a class 3 state. All the machines should be honest. In
>general, the Indiana racinos have poorer pay tables than the others.
>(See the vpfree2.com lists for better info.) I am the Vpfree monitor
>for the Majestic Star in Gary. I have never seen a problem there. In
>class 2 states there are several versions depending on the state the
>vp machine might have a tiny bingo card if it is a bingo type but
>most of these have some secondary feature such as a "match card
>bonus" or a "genie". (If you see any of these then the game is class
>2 - eg what this group would consider NOT fair!) This is to insure
>the pre-determined result occurs in case you mess up your hold. NY
>state is class 2 and I also believe that parts of WA are likewise.
>FL and CA used to be class 2 but are now almost completely class 3.
>In your area, IN, IL, MO, IA (both tribal and non-tribal), MN, WI
>and MI (both tribal and non-tribal) are all class 3 states but be
>aware the MN limits theoretical non-progressive payback to 98% or
>less and the others are all limited to less than 100% (MO used to
>have a fair number of the 100.72% version of All American and both
>Joliet IL properties used to have 10-7-5 DB (100.17%).
>
>I just read about VLT's and want to know how a player can possibly
>know if the VP machines at any given casino are really independent
>VP machines or if they are actually VLT's with linked lottery-type
>predeterminations and preset payout percentages?
>
>The two racinos here in Indiana are such consistent VP thieves for
>me that I am starting to wonder if all of their machines are really
>just VLT's. These two locations have nothing but slot machines and
>electronic games, as Indiana law prohibits live games on land.
>
>How can I find out or where can I look? I don't ever want to put
>money into a VLT only to be fooled by the look and feel of real VP.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Laura
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: brucem <brumar_lv@yahoo.com>
>To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sun, Dec 13, 2009 11:33 pm
>Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Slot Machines - How to Win and How They Work
>
>This ten minute video on youtube by Steve Bourie is worth viewing,
>especially by those who question the fairness of casino games. In
>one segment a series of questions are posed to Bourie, and he gives
>an answer. Although the video refers to slots, not VP, his answers
>also apply to VP.
>
>--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@...> wrote:
> >
> > 10 minute video by Steve Bourie (American Casino Guide)
> >
> > "Slot Machines - How to Win and How They Work"
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wkubf1PrWg
> >
> > <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wkubf1PrWg">
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wkubf1PrWg</a>
> >
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>------------------------------------
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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