The actor had an article in Bluff magazine saying he found out Las
Vegas casinos after 9-11 were not doing good so they finally got a law
passed allowing them to put a chip in the machines to control the
winning. This makes sense when you play some the newer full-pay
deuces in that they don't seem to streak and seem not random.
Boycott Vegas casinos until the law is changed.
Talk is cheap, proof please…
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "billberggren" <bill.berggren@p...>
wrote:
The actor had an article in Bluff magazine saying he found out Las
Vegas casinos after 9-11 were not doing good so they finally got a
law
passed allowing them to put a chip in the machines to control the
winning. This makes sense when you play some the newer full-pay
deuces in that they don't seem to streak and seem not random.Boycott Vegas casinos until the law is changed.
I have played VP for several years and after 9-11
results appear to have changed. Many "close misses"
and etc. force me to believe that something has
changed in the randomness. That would be one way to
phase out VP poker to get predictable slot machines to
take over. Something surely has happened.
--- rosspark100 <rosspark100@hotmail.com> wrote:
Talk is cheap, proof please…
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "billberggren"
<bill.berggren@p...>
wrote:
>
> The actor had an article in Bluff magazine saying
he found out Las
> Vegas casinos after 9-11 were not doing good so
they finally got a
law
> passed allowing them to put a chip in the machines
to control the
> winning. This makes sense when you play some the
newer full-pay
> deuces in that they don't seem to streak and seem
not random.
>
> Boycott Vegas casinos until the law is changed.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Programming vp is a simple task. So, I think just about anything is
possible.
If you can't clear your mind of these possibilities and accept on
faith that the game is sufficiently profitable for the casinos to keep
things on the up and up, and if NV gaming conspiracy theories cloud
your mind as you drift asleep each night ... do yourself a favor and
walk from the game, before you do a Mel Gibson number.
(and, Bill, I'm unfamilar with Bluff but I suspect a switch to Stuff
might lower your overall stress level ...)
- H.
Too bad the published regs don't back you up. Please don't post
misinformation unless you are prepared to back it up.
At 11:32 PM 10/11/2004, you wrote:
The actor had an article in Bluff magazine saying he found out Las
Vegas casinos after 9-11 were not doing good so they finally got a law
passed allowing them to put a chip in the machines to control the
winning. This makes sense when you play some the newer full-pay
deuces in that they don't seem to streak and seem not random.Boycott Vegas casinos until the law is changed.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The actor had an article in Bluff magazine saying he found out Las
Vegas casinos after 9-11 were not doing good so they finally got a law
passed allowing them to put a chip in the machines to control the
winning.
Oh great, now you tell me. I originally took up video poker back in the
early 80's as a break from blackjack play. I devoted countless hours, now
apparently all wasted, on such useless tools like Stanford Wong's VP Exact,
Panamint's VP Tutor, Masque's Video Poker, BDPWP, and Frugal Video Poker, to
now discover the latest undeniable truth about the game. How foolish of me
to put total trust and faith into people with great mathematical minds when
all I had to do was consult with the ACTOR who starred in "Rolie Polie
Olie: The Great Defender of Fun" as the villain, how fittingly named,
Gloomius Maximus. What the hell was I thinking?
Boycott Vegas casinos until the law is changed.
By any chance, did James "Gloomius" happen to quote the statute number of
this new law? Not that I wouldn't have complete confidence in a magazine
with the moniker of "Bluff".
Nudge
From: "billberggren" <bill.berggren@padobe.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Video Poker non-random James Woods.
I too have noticed a big difference in the past two years but I
honestly don't know whether it is just a bad streak or the
introduction of new chips. Gone are the days when I could sit at the
bar and play for a while on a twenty. Part of it is that I will
sometimes play machines with lower pay tables especially if I like
the bar so I accept that my overall payback is less. But, it is
still lower than "normal."
It has crossed my mind that with so many other casinos around the
country with VP that a better casino "hold" might help compensate for
the lower volume although the statistics I hear is that Vegas is
busier than ever.
tedd
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "billberggren" <bill.berggren@p...>
wrote:
The actor had an article in Bluff magazine saying he found out Las
Vegas casinos after 9-11 were not doing good so they finally got a
law
passed allowing them to put a chip in the machines to control the
winning. This makes sense when you play some the newer full-pay
deuces in that they don't seem to streak and seem not random.Boycott Vegas casinos until the law is changed.
If this were the case, and I were a casino owner, I would improve the
pay schedules to create the impression among customers that they were
playing "better" games. For instance if 'a chip controlled the
winning', why not have a DW game paying 30 for 4oak and 10 for 3oak
rather than 25 and 5? VP enthusiasts would swarm to the
machines 'thinking' they were getting a good play,not knowing their
destiny was really determined by "a chip in the machines to control
the winning". It would also be profitable to offer apparently
positive games in higher denominations.
As others have mentioned, what law is it?
I agree with "newer full-pay" "don't seem to streak". I think this is
due to faster processors. The streaks are still there but for very
short runs. Now I wonder???
Cheers....Jeep
.
.
The actor had an article in Bluff magazine saying he found out Las
Vegas casinos after 9-11 were not doing good so they finally got a
law
passed allowing them to put a chip in the machines to control the
winning. This makes sense when you play some the newer full-pay
deuces in that they don't seem to streak and seem not random.Boycott Vegas casinos until the law is changed.
Good point.
Many years ago, I read a James Woods interview where he went on and on about how smart he is compared to, well, everyone else in the world. And he wasn't joking. Don't get me wrong, I actually like a few of his movies (the 'vampire' movies are a hoot!)
But I don't give him much credibility as a source of useful information.
carlos
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "billberggren"
wrote:
The actor had an article in Bluff magazine saying he found out Las
Vegas casinos after 9-11 were not doing good so they finally got a
law
passed allowing them to put a chip in the machines to control the
winning. This makes sense when you play some the newer full-pay
deuces in that they don't seem to streak and seem not random.Boycott Vegas casinos until the law is changed.
If this were the case, and I were a casino owner, I would improve the
pay schedules to create the impression among customers that they were
playing "better" games....[etc]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
testpro <testpro@yahoo.com> wrote:
I am a long time video poker player. I never made a connection to
post 9/11 performance - BUT -it has seemed since the NEW vp machines
have replaced the older machines results are never as good. I always
look for the old machines, but they are becoming much harder to
find. Almost non existent in Atlantic City.
For some reason, I agree. I just liked the way the old coin-droppers
played, I liked the graphics better and they just had a better, real
card-like feel to them. I don't know what could have changed, but I've
had enough history with the new machines to notice a difference in play.
Regards,
Scot
-----Original Message-----
From: twins742002 [mailto:Safe…@…com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 11:07 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Video Poker non-random James Woods.
Since we are giving anecdotal "evidence," I'll add ours. 2002 was about a break-even year for us - 2003 was our second best ever and 2004 is on its way to being extremely good also (although we could go through a long losing streak these last few months.)
I wonder if everyone who is posting a "sudden decline" after 9/11
1. ALWAYS chooses 100%+ plays - or at least subtracts all "fun" gambling less than 100%.
2. Plays VERY accurately, which means not changing games too often without studying/practicing the new strategy.
3. Utilizes promotions and slot club benefits to boost the EV of their total play. Playing too close to just 100%, none of us could live long enough or play long enough to use anecdotal information to make any judgments about the randomness of the games.
My theory: there HAS been a decrease since 9/11 - but not in randomness but in the number of well-over 100% plays. Therefore more people are resorting to under-100% plays. Or, if they play over 100%, it is just barely over 100%. 100.1% just doesn't cut it - even if I were 30 years younger and played every day, I wouldn't be sure of being necessarily even close to a winner if that was the best edge I could get.
We rarely have a winning year any more just counting VP play - a fact we are not surprised at - we are playing negative-expectation games most of the time - 9/6 JoB, NSUDs, even 8/5 Bonus. But we hammer the casino benefit system hard - bounceback, cashback, tournaments, drawings, useable gift cards/certificates - usually to the tune of about $40,000-$60,000 - and that doesn't count one dollar of comps, which we just consider "gravy."
I find casino cash or cash equivalent benefits have INCREASED since 9/11. You just have work a little harder, be a little more organized, and be a lot more flexible.
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards and for the
Frugal series of books.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Now that were on this subject; do you remember when the old ones used
to return the same card when drawing to a 4 ST. Let's say 6789 not
suited with a Q. More often than should be another Q would show.
Every so often I imagine that some of the "new" machines play like
that. Also I imagine these< that play like this, play more like the
old ones. The key word here might be imagine. Even if this would be
true, how would it help us?
Also I don't like new machines because they are uncomfortable to
play. Especially the uprights. The validator on right of IGTs is
placed in a position that makes my right arm sit in lousy position.
Many of the new taller machines are placed on stands that were bulit
for shorter machine cabinets. New machines too high. The flat tops
are not so bed except it seems half of them have strong spot lights
placed above them. Lights are positioned to place glare on screen.
Some are impossible to play for long. But, what do I know? I'm just a
customer. I don't think I enjoy the games as much now. I seem to have
less desire to play them now.
Cheers....Jeep
.
.-- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@w...>
wrote:
From: twins742002 [mailto:SafeSal@a…]
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 11:07 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Video Poker non-random James Woods.I am a long time video poker player. I never made a connection to
post 9/11 performance - BUT -it has seemed since the NEW vp
machines
have replaced the older machines results are never as good. I
always
look for the old machines, but they are becoming much harder to
find. Almost non existent in Atlantic City.>For some reason, I agree. I just liked the way the old coin-
droppers
played, I liked the graphics better and they just had a better, real
card-like feel to them. I don't know what could have changed, but
I've
had enough history with the new machines to notice a difference in
play.
-----Original Message-----
Regards,
Scot
IGT hasn't made any new VP machines since the intro of the Game King
about 10 years ago.
Since then, all IGT machines have been built on the same platform:
the 12mhz intel i960 processor.
Many of the "New" machines being produced use the exact same game
programs written 10+ years ago.
stu
Now that were on this subject; do you remember when the old ones
used
to return the same card when drawing to a 4 ST. Let's say 6789 not
suited with a Q. More often than should be another Q would show.
Every so often I imagine that some of the "new" machines play like
that. Also I imagine these< that play like this, play more like the
old ones. The key word here might be imagine. Even if this would be
true, how would it help us?
Also I don't like new machines because they are uncomfortable to
play. Especially the uprights. The validator on right of IGTs is
placed in a position that makes my right arm sit in lousy position.
Many of the new taller machines are placed on stands that were
bulit
for shorter machine cabinets. New machines too high. The flat tops
are not so bed except it seems half of them have strong spot lights
placed above them. Lights are positioned to place glare on screen.
Some are impossible to play for long. But, what do I know? I'm just
a
customer. I don't think I enjoy the games as much now. I seem to
have
less desire to play them now.
Cheers…Jeep
.
.-- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@w…>
wrote:
>
>
> From: twins742002 [mailto:SafeSal@a…]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 11:07 AM
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Video Poker non-random James Woods.
>
> I am a long time video poker player. I never made a connection to
> post 9/11 performance - BUT -it has seemed since the NEW vp
machines
> have replaced the older machines results are never as good. I
always
> look for the old machines, but they are becoming much harder to
> find. Almost non existent in Atlantic City.
>
>
> >For some reason, I agree. I just liked the way the old coin-
droppers
> played, I liked the graphics better and they just had a better,
real
> card-like feel to them. I don't know what could have changed, but
I've
> had enough history with the new machines to notice a difference
in
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "whitejeeps" <whitejeeps@y...> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
play.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Scot
The information came out of the new poker magazine called Bluff. You
can get a free copy a the Bicycle casino in Los Angeles or on ebay.
In in he says after 9-11 the casino were not doing good so they
finially got the legal right to use "yield management chips" in the
machines. He got his information from casino workers.
The information did not come me but James Woods the actor.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby@c...> wrote:
Too bad the published regs don't back you up. Please don't post
misinformation unless you are prepared to back it up.
As an off topic in California prior to Prop 1A, we use to have the
best video poker machines in the world. We had some that paid 25 for
the straight and 35 for the flush, job. But, the real neat ones were
the parimutuel video poker. For 5 quarters you often had Rf that paid
$5000, a pair of jacks that paid $1.30, strange payout that offered
like a 5 percent edge. The ones next to them might offer a $200 rf.
The payout were tied to a parimutual system where the casino was
quaranteed to make like a 10 percent coin in - coin out.
This leads to another way to fight these machines. Get 10-10 dollar
bills. And feed them all in manually. Play the machine when you get a
full house or better, cash out and get say 11 ten dollar bills and do
the same thing again in another machine. I saw someone doing this at
an Indian casino in CA and though he was nuts. But, with these "yield
management" chips maybe he found something.
Those of us with experience with "casino workers" know they are a fount of
misinformation. What you suggest is absolutely illegal in the state of
Nevada. The regulations clearly say that any machine that represents a
table game must behave as if a live dealer was running the game. Therefore
for poker games there must be a fair deal from a full deck with each card
having an equal probability of coming up.
I am trying to inform you, not flame you. I'm sorry my first post appeared
to do so.
At 11:33 PM 10/13/2004, you wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby@c...> wrote:
> Too bad the published regs don't back you up. Please don't post
> misinformation unless you are prepared to back it up.
>The information came out of the new poker magazine called Bluff. You
can get a free copy a the Bicycle casino in Los Angeles or on ebay.
In in he says after 9-11 the casino were not doing good so they
finially got the legal right to use "yield management chips" in the
machines. He got his information from casino workers.The information did not come me but James Woods the actor.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill Coleman wrote:
Those of us with experience with "casino workers" know they are a
fount of
misinformation. What you suggest is absolutely illegal in the
state of
Nevada. The regulations clearly say that any machine that
represents a
table game must behave as if a live dealer was running the game.
Therefore
for poker games there must be a fair deal from a full deck with
each card
having an equal probability of coming up.
Of course. Someone's leg is being not just pulled, but sharply
yanked. Woods might well have been the yankee, with the tech (if he
existed) as the yanker*, but it also may have been Woods himself who
thought all this up. Does anyone really think he played enough 10/7
in Las Vegas to notice 'trends'? Where was he playing all this 10/7?
He would have to have been around the locals' casinos a lot. Anyone
notice him?
Put-ons are popular now. They call them something else now but it's
not coming to me... Punked! As someone mentioned, a magazine named
Bluff would seem to be a good place for this.
*The reason I think so, is that Yield Management is a term used in
chip manufacturing and a tech might have been aware of that, and
threw it in because it sounded good. As Bill noted, casino employees
offer up a lot of misinformation, but I think a lot of it is
intentional.<g>
Skip
-Hi there stu
I have been playing vp since the games had black & white monitors. I
can remember playing a vp game at IP that resembled a game
manfactured by a company called Omega. I am going back to when IP was
like a big motel. At that time Bally, the king of gambling games, had
no interest in vp. Bally actually helped Sircoma(IGT) get a good
start in legal vp games. Vp paid bet back on two pair. No one really
played vp till someone changed pay schedules to pay bet back on jacks
or better. Of course Frome & Wong helped vp a lot; when the games
became playable as progressives and with full pay deuces. When $1
deuces and good progressives were around I spent at least 10 wks a
year playing at least 10 hours a day in Vegas. Later only
progressives were good with a few 50 cent and lots of 25 cent
deuces. Even Mirage had some 9/6 vp till a couple years ago. The CB
was about .62% and that was playable for comp players. The point is;
I have a lot of miles playing games.
You may be right about IGT hasn't changed for a while. Remember
though, a new revision 10 years ago may hit the street in one year or
it make take some joints 15 years to change up to new games. The
change isn't magic and doesn't happen overnight.
For the record, I DO BELIEVE THE VP IS RANDOM IN NEVADA. They don't
gaff the machines. I just believe there are subtle differences in the
way the new programs handle the randomness. I believe one brand of
machine plays different than other brands, sometime. That doesn't
mean the casino win is changed or fixed. I guess I have a feeling
much like a police detective knows there is something wrong with a
suspect. It's his years of experience that tips him off. My feeling
tells me the games play different and I have a lot of play time to
draw from. I'm not saying they are wrong just different.
One more point; I have never heard so much discussion about the
machines not playing the same. Scan back even on this site and not
much posts about this subject in old posts. Go back further,
randomness was never questioned. Many of the folks making the same
observations have been playing a long time. As I posted earlier, I
think some of problem is due to TITO. We can play in 4 hrs what used
to take 6 hrs. A winning session was stalled for fill ups. By time
you get 3 fill ups it's time to go eat and the player leaves a
winner. By the way, the example I posted about the 4 ST draw is
clearly documented. I believe someone even submitted a complaint to
gaming commission in Nevada. I think the complaint was dismissed or
ignored. Maybe someone can enlighten us more. The 4 ST draw is a
subtle difference and much of "new" stuff doesn't do that. You can
take that to the bank.
Question; Since you seem to know the electronic jargon, you may know
this. Are you indicating IGT has one program since 10 years ago? The
multi games use same program as stand alone game? Have there been any
updates or new versions? Sounds reasonable, as updates probably have
to be approved. I just wondered.
Have a good one......Jeep
.
.
.
IGT hasn't made any new VP machines since the intro of the Game
King
about 10 years ago.
Since then, all IGT machines have been built on the same platform:
the 12mhz intel i960 processor.
Many of the "New" machines being produced use the exact same game
programs written 10+ years ago.stu
>
> Now that were on this subject; do you remember when the old ones
used
> to return the same card when drawing to a 4 ST. Let's say 6789
not
> suited with a Q. More often than should be another Q would show.
> Every so often I imagine that some of the "new" machines play
like
> that. Also I imagine these< that play like this, play more like
the
> old ones. The key word here might be imagine. Even if this would
be
> true, how would it help us?
> Also I don't like new machines because they are uncomfortable to
> play. Especially the uprights. The validator on right of IGTs is
> placed in a position that makes my right arm sit in lousy
position.
> Many of the new taller machines are placed on stands that were
bulit
> for shorter machine cabinets. New machines too high. The flat
tops
> are not so bed except it seems half of them have strong spot
lights
> placed above them. Lights are positioned to place glare on
screen.
> Some are impossible to play for long. But, what do I know? I'm
just
a
> customer. I don't think I enjoy the games as much now. I seem to
have
> less desire to play them now.
>
> Cheers…Jeep
> .
> .-- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@w…>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: twins742002 [mailto:SafeSal@a…]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 11:07 AM
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Video Poker non-random James Woods.
> >
> > I am a long time video poker player. I never made a connection
to
> > post 9/11 performance - BUT -it has seemed since the NEW vp
> machines
> > have replaced the older machines results are never as good. I
> always
> > look for the old machines, but they are becoming much harder to
> > find. Almost non existent in Atlantic City.
> >
> >
> > >For some reason, I agree. I just liked the way the old coin-
> droppers
> > played, I liked the graphics better and they just had a better,
real
> > card-like feel to them. I don't know what could have changed,
but
-- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp1000mph" <1000mph@m...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "whitejeeps" <whitejeeps@y...> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> I've
> > had enough history with the new machines to notice a difference
in
> play.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Scot