Has anyone reviewed VPW? I don't care for it a whole lot. It is
slow, it fills too little of the screen, it won't transfer to a PDA, I
can't figure out how to change paytables. I am sure glad I didn't
completely trust BD's hype on the software: I kept my copy of win
poker. I spoke to a number of serious VP players in LV last week. NO
one was overwhelmed by VPW. Could it be that IGT compromised on
quality to get it on the market quickly?
Video Poker for Winners
poochiekr4536l wrote:
Has anyone reviewed VPW? I don't care for it a whole lot. It is
slow, it fills too little of the screen, it won't transfer to a PDA,
I can't figure out how to change paytables. I am sure glad I didn't
completely trust BD's hype on the software: I kept my copy of win
poker. I spoke to a number of serious VP players in LV last week. NO
one was overwhelmed by VPW. Could it be that IGT compromised on
quality to get it on the market quickly?
So, when was the last time you found a LV "serious VP player"
overwhelmed by anything (other than a $2+ 3% play opp ... or maybe
$100 FPDW 
Take a seat next to me in AC and I'll give you an earful. Plainly put
... the software is awesome.
Look, I'll grant you that if you're looking for some quick and dirty
practice, winpoker still is exceptional. Quick loads, a clean
interface, and all the basics covered -- it rates as far more than
simply adequate. It still finds frequent use by Bev and me.
The biggest downside to VPW is that it's pretty resource hungry. It
runs fine on my 2.8GHz/3GB machine. But load time for modules takes a
bit of patience in an age where most general software loads in a
couple of secs. Further, some of the more in depth bankroll analysis
runs far slower than one might hope for (mind you, there's a ton of
crunching going on there). I'm hoping that the software will see
sufficient sales success that there's motivation for optimization.
I cut the software a ton a leeway on the performance issue. It has a
motherlode of power. Start with the fact that the machine
layout/performance totally parallels the real life IGT equivalent --
this involves more than a few cosmetics. I've joked that I've been
disappointed that I haven't been able to talk Bev into donning a
cocktail waitress outfit from my fav casino just to complete the ambiance.
For the aspiring player looking to refine their play it has one of the
finest tutors to date, including a feature that incrementally adds
difficulty to hands played as the player demonstrates expertise.
It surpasses Winpoker in offering a game strategy generator. And the
game analysis is well advanced -- including bankroll analysis that
extends into realms that a savvy player has salivated for to date
(includes multiline, spinpoker, Super Times Pay and MultiStrike).
These comments are far from comprehensive; just those that come
immediately to mind. In summary, it's a knock-out product -- as I
recently stated, I just hope that it's not another "one hit wonder"
and that we see some serious enhancement over the next year or two.
If you subscribe to Skip Hughes "Video Poker Player", look for his
review soon.
- Harry
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "poochiekr4536l" <poochiekr4536l@...>
wrote:
Has anyone reviewed VPW? I don't care for it a whole lot.
Could it be that IGT compromised on quality to get it on the market
quickly?
I haven't seen a full-on review of Video Poker for Winners. IMO, the
product is more style than substance. The developers went to great
lengths to make the interface pretty and realistic, but VPW falls
short on the analytical end.
A few of my complaints:
- Very poor "Help" manual. Needs much more detailed explanation of
the "analytical" tools.
- Analytical tools are sub-par and fall short of the hype. Dunbar's
Risk Analyzer for VP is so much better in this regard. In addition,
Excel users should find DRA-VP's interface and operation
uncomplicated.
- It is clunky, slow and contains irrelevant information. The
attached Bob Dancer videos are an example. They offer
almost zero information, and appear to be nothing more than Dancer
stroking his ego bit.
Bottom line, serious players will find that VPW falls short of their
needs and expectations.
All of what you say is absolutely true. The only thing that I use VPW for is the multi-line
bankroll calculator. Otherwise, WinPoker and the Dunbar analyzer satisfies all my needs.
.....bl
Other than that, the Dunbar software and
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "poochiekr4536l" <poochiekr4536l@...> wrote:
Has anyone reviewed VPW? I don't care for it a whole lot. It is
slow, it fills too little of the screen, it won't transfer to a PDA, I
can't figure out how to change paytables. I am sure glad I didn't
completely trust BD's hype on the software: I kept my copy of win
poker. I spoke to a number of serious VP players in LV last week. NO
one was overwhelmed by VPW. Could it be that IGT compromised on
quality to get it on the market quickly?
Oh, yes! ....and Strategy Master.
.....bl
All of what you say is absolutely true. The only thing that I use VPW for is the multi-line
bankroll calculator. Otherwise, WinPoker and the Dunbar analyzer satisfies all my
needs.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@...> wrote:
.....bl
Other than that, the Dunbar software and
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "poochiekr4536l" <poochiekr4536l@> wrote:
>
> Has anyone reviewed VPW? I don't care for it a whole lot. It is
> slow, it fills too little of the screen, it won't transfer to a PDA, I
> can't figure out how to change paytables. I am sure glad I didn't
> completely trust BD's hype on the software: I kept my copy of win
> poker. I spoke to a number of serious VP players in LV last week. NO
> one was overwhelmed by VPW. Could it be that IGT compromised on
> quality to get it on the market quickly?
>
Note: My opinion of VPW may change as I use it more often. But at
this point, I'm underwhelmed with the software. Perhaps I expected
too much? Maybe it's just a case of the hype not matching the reality.
As I use VPW to help me with new opportunities when they pop-up, I
may find VPW much more valuable than I do now.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@...>
wrote:
All of what you say is absolutely true. The only thing that I use
VPW for is the multi-line
bankroll calculator. Otherwise, WinPoker and the Dunbar analyzer
satisfies all my needs.
.....bl
Other than that, the Dunbar software and
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "poochiekr4536l" <poochiekr4536l@>
wrote:
>
> Has anyone reviewed VPW? I don't care for it a whole lot. It is
> slow, it fills too little of the screen, it won't transfer to a
PDA, I
> can't figure out how to change paytables. I am sure glad I didn't
> completely trust BD's hype on the software: I kept my copy of win
> poker. I spoke to a number of serious VP players in LV last
week. NO
···
> one was overwhelmed by VPW. Could it be that IGT compromised on
> quality to get it on the market quickly?
>
bornloser1537 wrote:
All of what you say is absolutely true. The only thing that I use
VPW for is the multi-line bankroll calculator. Otherwise, WinPoker
and the Dunbar analyzer satisfies all my needs.
No doubt, any recommendation I might make is generally focussed and
won't apply to all.
Were I sitting by you in the casino and chatting casually, I'd likely
remark that the multiline analysis features merit the cost alone --
nothing compares.
Sitting next to someone else, it might be the tutor that I'd commend
to them as worth the investment (and it's no surprise to find the
feature is worthless to you).
For the next person, who might be a big MultiStrike fan, I'd suggest
that it's the only product that is efficient as a tutor and again
worth the price.
Etc, etc -- bottom line, there are damned few who'd I'd suggest that
it would be money poorly spent. (And most will find multiple benefits.)
btw, I have no problem suggesting to anyone who might risk a grand in
the casino in the course of a year that a cross section of tools would
best serve their needs, given that no one product excels in all respects.
- Harry
VPW is in my arsenal of important tools to help me "play" VP more intelligently. It is slow
and bulky (and I really don't like those worthless Dancer video snippets <smile>). But, I
would recommend it to anyone who wants to learn as much as they can about VP and how
to play it intelligently. It does not have everything by any means, but it does have things
that other software products do not have. VPW was worth the purchase price for me.
.....bl
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:
bornloser1537 wrote:
> All of what you say is absolutely true. The only thing that I use
> VPW for is the multi-line bankroll calculator. Otherwise, WinPoker
> and the Dunbar analyzer satisfies all my needs.No doubt, any recommendation I might make is generally focussed and
won't apply to all.Were I sitting by you in the casino and chatting casually, I'd likely
remark that the multiline analysis features merit the cost alone --
nothing compares.Sitting next to someone else, it might be the tutor that I'd commend
to them as worth the investment (and it's no surprise to find the
feature is worthless to you).For the next person, who might be a big MultiStrike fan, I'd suggest
that it's the only product that is efficient as a tutor and again
worth the price.Etc, etc -- bottom line, there are damned few who'd I'd suggest that
it would be money poorly spent. (And most will find multiple benefits.)btw, I have no problem suggesting to anyone who might risk a grand in
the casino in the course of a year that a cross section of tools would
best serve their needs, given that no one product excels in all respects.- Harry
Actually the first part of the review (with plenty of screenshots) is already out in the April issue. Part 2 of the review, which will include a comparison with other software is on the way. Part two will also include a couple of warts I've found, (but the first version of any software always has those).
Thanks,
Skip
http://www.skiphughes.com
vpFREE discounts:
Video Poker Player: http://www.vpplayer.com/GROUP/vpfree.html (use vpfree as id and password)
VPinsider.com: http://www.vpinsider.com/vpfree (use vpfree as id and password)
Harry Porter wrote:
If you subscribe to Skip Hughes "Video Poker Player", look for his
review soon.
Have to agree with Harry....we have used it now for three months and it has almost fulfilled all of our expectations. We first thought in the beginning that our no hit rate was too low as compared with casino RNGs, but after several casual comparisons we were satisfied that the no hit rate was fairly equal.....we still believe though a thorough and analytical survey would be very helpful to convince non-believers one way or the other. The one main thing we miss are stats of actual hand results so we can track percentages of various hands paid.....if this is available, then we have not found it yet. By the way, we do on rare occasions go back to Win Poker to compare results with results we question on VPW.
What we like most about VPW, is the outstanding selection of games and it's in-depth software load to replicate the actual game. We have broadened our arsenal of VP assault on casinos as we travel and have enjoyed playing "what ifs" in the hotel room before going down to the casino for actual play on our selected game(s) of the night.
By the way, Harry....let me know if you are successful with the cocktail waitress outfit thing...I have had no luck getting Kathy into one.....yet! ; )
Chuck and Kathy
poochiekr4536l wrote:
Has anyone reviewed VPW? I don't care for it a whole lot. It is
slow, it fills too little of the screen, it won't transfer to a PDA,
I can't figure out how to change paytables. I am sure glad I didn't
completely trust BD's hype on the software: I kept my copy of win
poker. I spoke to a number of serious VP players in LV last week. NO
one was overwhelmed by VPW. Could it be that IGT compromised on
quality to get it on the market quickly?
So, when was the last time you found a LV "serious VP player"
overwhelmed by anything (other than a $2+ 3% play opp ... or maybe
$100 FPDW
Take a seat next to me in AC and I'll give you an earful. Plainly put
... the software is awesome.
Look, I'll grant you that if you're looking for some quick and dirty
practice, winpoker still is exceptional. Quick loads, a clean
interface, and all the basics covered -- it rates as far more than
simply adequate. It still finds frequent use by Bev and me.
The biggest downside to VPW is that it's pretty resource hungry. It
runs fine on my 2.8GHz/3GB machine. But load time for modules takes a
bit of patience in an age where most general software loads in a
couple of secs. Further, some of the more in depth bankroll analysis
runs far slower than one might hope for (mind you, there's a ton of
crunching going on there). I'm hoping that the software will see
sufficient sales success that there's motivation for optimization.
I cut the software a ton a leeway on the performance issue. It has a
motherlode of power. Start with the fact that the machine
layout/performance totally parallels the real life IGT equivalent --
this involves more than a few cosmetics. I've joked that I've been
disappointed that I haven't been able to talk Bev into donning a
cocktail waitress outfit from my fav casino just to complete the ambiance.
For the aspiring player looking to refine their play it has one of the
finest tutors to date, including a feature that incrementally adds
difficulty to hands played as the player demonstrates expertise.
It surpasses Winpoker in offering a game strategy generator. And the
game analysis is well advanced -- including bankroll analysis that
extends into realms that a savvy player has salivated for to date
(includes multiline, spinpoker, Super Times Pay and MultiStrike).
These comments are far from comprehensive; just those that come
immediately to mind. In summary, it's a knock-out product -- as I
recently stated, I just hope that it's not another "one hit wonder"
and that we see some serious enhancement over the next year or two.
If you subscribe to Skip Hughes "Video Poker Player", look for his
review soon.
- Harry
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
···
Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathy wrote:
We first thought in the beginning that our no hit rate was too low as
compared with casino RNGs, but after several casual comparisons we
were satisfied that the no hit rate was fairly equal.....we still
believe though a thorough and analytical survey would be very helpful
to convince non-believers one way or the other. The one main thing
we miss are stats of actual hand results so we can track percentages
of various hands paid.....if this is available, then we have not
found it yet.
I'll comment on this if I have a chance later this evening; locating
some of the VPW data screens takes a bit of a hunt ... and, there are
some things that aren't there that, after greater use, I'd prefer were.
That said, I'll offer that I'm entirely comfortable with hand
distributions in the analysis module and in regular practice -- with
the proviso that you're playing in "Mixed" (random) mode. Play under
any of the skill specific settings (beginning, etc.) and your hand
distribution will be very skewed vs expectation on the deal (though
not on draws).
By the way, Harry....let me know if you are successful with the
cocktail waitress outfit thing...I have had no luck getting Kathy
into one.....yet! ; )
Well, she's got me duded up in a tux to accompany her to a
work-related benefit tomorrow night so maybe there's some turnabout
fair play to be had.
- Harry
Its $49 - what do want for $49 - it is $49 for a product with a
limited audience - for price to value it has to be the deal of
century - I have some issue with it too, particularly the screen
sizing - but at this price what do you expect - it was not released by
a software company - I think they did a great job. Do any of you have
any idea what is involved in putting together a piece of software like
this?
Of course! Some of us do this for a living!
And, I still say that the QC on this product must have been minimal.
.....bl
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caplatinum" <belairgold@...> wrote:
Do any of you have any idea what is involved in putting together a
piece of software like this?
caplatinum wrote:
> Do any of you have any idea what is involved in putting together a
> piece of software like this?
bornloser1537 wrote:
Of course! Some of us do this for a living!
And, I still say that the QC on this product must have been minimal.
I was not directly involved in the beta testing of this product (I
couldn't manage the concerted effort nor time commitment that a
thorough run would necessitate), but I have a decent idea of the
effort that did go into it.
It should be recognized, as cap pointed out earlier, that this isn't a
piece of software that's going to generate $100's of thousands in
revenue -- it's a specialized audience. And, as he suggests, in a
commercial environment the product might easily go for 6x-10x the
price. Consequently, a testing budget is going to be limited within a
constraint that is less than ideal.
Further, the general scope of the program outstrips anything else of
the sort to date. Analyzing the big picture of various components to
detect isolated but very significant flaws takes hours, and features
that receive the predominant use (practice and basic analysis of
games) are going to naturally receive far greater scrutiny than others.
Consider the ground breaking inclusion of novelty games such as Super
Times Pay and MultiStrike. This covers virgin territory and the
prospect for a serious flaw in some aspect that represents a very
small proportion of all aspects of those games is sizable.
I'll suggest, again ideally, that the testers might be assigned very
specific areas for focus. While there was a reasonably sized, highly
motivated, body of beta testers, we're talking about an all-volunteer
layman army who received a token measure of appreciation for their
effort -- not a team of well compensated technicians. At best you
simply let them loose with the product and hammer away.
Any product such as this is an easy target on which to pick away at
imperfections. But I give a much bigger damn about what's there than
what's not (or incomplete). If it satisfies my needs in some manner
that other products do not, then that's gonna be the big picture to
me. I'll fire it up for that purpose, if no other ... and from that
perspective I expect the majority of prospective users will find it
well worth the price.
···
------
What's notable is that a full working version can be downloaded for a
10-day trial -- that means you don't end up buying a "pig in a poke".
We're not talking about a limited feature version like the winpoker
trial.
Two caveats: The download is sizable ... on a high speed connection
it likely will take 5-10 minutes (maybe less if you have a speedy
machine). On a more modest connection you could be looking at 20 min+.
Second, as discussed, the software is resource demanding compared to
the typical applications the average player might have on their PC.
But the key advantage here is that you get a complete picture of
whether the product performance will be satisfactory for you. You
don't have to rely upon tidbits, positive and negative, offered up by
others.
It's worth noting that if you're of a mind to simply download repeated
trials, I expect it's unlikely that you can do that. Because of the
authentication that takes advantage of Microsoft.NET Framework,
activation of a repeat trial likely doesn't work. FWIW, to purchase
the software you simply pony up the payment online and you receive a
validation code (specific to the install on your machine) that
converts it from a trial install.
------
Instructions for the trial install can be found at:
http://www.videopokerforwinners.com/freeTrial/
- Harry
(Again, this is a non-compensated endorsement
I am able to reprogram the paytable. I found a large error in the
strategy generation that makes me question the validity of the
generator. I input the paytable for downtown dueces. According to the
program, you should hold ATs with 1 wild over any other alternative.
Not only is this wrong but it shows the error of not holding this combo
as costing roughly $28 on a .25 machine. The strategy table is not
wrong but the way the program reads it is wrong.
I also have an issue with the processor usage. I have a fast laptop
and it keeps the processor pretty busy. There also seems to be a
memory leak. My basic conclusion is that the graphics are nice as is
the ability to play multi-strike but I have more confidence in FVP.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "poochiekr4536l" <poochiekr4536l@...>
wrote:
···
Has anyone reviewed VPW? I don't care for it a whole lot. It is
slow, it fills too little of the screen, it won't transfer to a PDA, I
can't figure out how to change paytables. I am sure glad I didn't
completely trust BD's hype on the software: I kept my copy of win
poker. I spoke to a number of serious VP players in LV last week. NO
one was overwhelmed by VPW. Could it be that IGT compromised on
quality to get it on the market quickly?
elijahbailey12 wrote:
I am able to reprogram the paytable.
I think you'll agree that's a snap to do (as it is in any tutor).
I did note that someone else posted they had difficulty finding a way
to do this. Because of the large number of features, the menus are
rather extensive and sometimes it can take a little bit of a hunt and
peck to find a given feature (although I find this less the case here
than with some other tutors).
In the case of VPW, the selection is Options/Change Paytable.
I found a large error in the strategy generation that makes me
question the validity of the generator. I input the paytable for
downtown dueces. According to the program, you should hold ATs with
1 wild over any other alternative.
Not only is this wrong but it shows the error of not holding this
combo as costing roughly $28 on a .25 machine. The strategy table is
not wrong but the way the program reads it is wrong.
As you suggest, the strategy table for this hold is consistent with
that of Frugal VP (I haven't checked other strategy components),
suggest this part of the analysis is "not wrong".
Addressing your statement re what the program actually indicates is
the best hold in a hand with suited AT 2, it would be helpful if you
noted the specific hand that you analyzed so that an attempt to
duplicate your result is possible.
I constructed a hand with 2 close holds possible when suited AT 2 is
present (where the second hold is of higher value). The hand I
analyzed was: ATc 2s 9Jh. I ran this through the hand analysis feature.
Stated strategy is to never hold suited AT 2, and certainly suited 56
2 would be stronger in any case (it rates higher than suited AK). 3SF
was signalled as the stronger hold. This is expected -- this feature
is driven by the strategy chart ... since suited AT 2 isn't a strategy
hold (hold just the 2 in all cases), it will never be selected as the
better hold over anything.
However, in the course of actual play, if you have the Training Style
set to Perfect Play rather than Strategy, any deviation from the best
play choice given your specific cards will be flagged as an error ...
and occasionally the best choice will differ from what standard
strategy indicates.
Bear in mind that in Perfect Play the concept of penalty cards comes
into play -- these are cards that, when present in the dealt hand,
reduce the value of some possible holds. In the case of 9Jh 2, the T
is a penalty since when discarded it isn't available to form a S/SF on
the draw. (Were the hold 56h, the T would no longer be a penalty.)
So, there is always the potential in Perfect Play mode for a hold to
be favored that is contrary to Strategy mode. I set ATc 2s 9Jh as a
dealt hand and analyzed it under Perfect Play.
The result was consistent with strategy 2s 9Jh. Calculated ER's were
as follows:
2s Jh 9h: 5.27 coins
2s .....: 5.20 coins
2s Ac Tc: 5.03 coins
I then "played" these cards. Selecting the AT hold was flagged as a
$.06 error.
If you can provide more detail on your specific experience, I will
explore it further. However, I believe that there must be something
off in how you're interpreting the info from VPW. (Trust me, in my
early use it was "been there, done that".
I also have an issue with the processor usage. I have a fast laptop
and it keeps the processor pretty busy. There also seems to be a
memory leak. My basic conclusion is that the graphics are nice as is
the ability to play multi-strike but I have more confidence in FVP.
As discussed, VPW is relatively resource hungary relative to much
other software (likely reflecting extensive features and, in
particular, extremely fine graphics and other play simulation).
I obviously can't speak to your laptop experience. What I will note
is that it runs quite fine on my laptop. And, on my 2.8GHz/2GB
machine, the software presents no impediment when several other
programs are loaded, including a 2nd copy of VPW (while the 1st is
tied up in an analysis simulation).
I do think there is exposure to an excessive resource drain on older
machines with more limited resources and, without question, the trial
version should be tested before going forward with purchase.
But I'd expect no problem on recently purchased machines with
respectable resources. Given the rate of technology advancement, I'd
expect in a year's time it'll fly on even the more modest of machines
purchased then.
My bottom line is that I have every much confidence in VPW as I do in
any alternate VP tutor software.
- Harry
Just about everything that you said speaks to "why" the QC was minimal, and I agree with
virtually everything that you said. But, I simply stated that, from my working with the
"finished" product, the QC must have been minimal.
If VFW were a product for which I was responsible, maybe it would be better and maybe it
would be worse. We all have our own standards for products that we produce.
Having said all of that, I am sure that we all value and, more importantly, use, a lot of
software tools that are less than optimal.
In the end, as I said earlier, I consider VFW to be a very valuable tool and will be used by me a
lot, until something better comes along (if it ever does). I recommend it as a good buy by
anyone who wants to get the most out of his/her VP experiences.
.....bl
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:
Any product such as this is an easy target on which to pick away at
imperfections.