I'll note that in the case of Indian casinos that have IGT games, BobDancer has been emphatic in the fairness of those games. I acceptthat statement. However, I hold out reservations in general (no playon words intended ;). Harry,
Haven't we concluded that just because a machine is manufactured by IGT does not make it a random deal?
Wouldn't that have to read if it is an IGT machine and does not show the "genie" function or "match card" or nothing under the "help" menu, that then it is a fair/random deal?
Here again I think the term "lottery" is a legal/legislative issue and not necessarily a "functional" issue.
Gary
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To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.comFrom: harry.porter@verizon.netDate: Thu, 18 May 2006 11:31:33 +0000Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Video Lottery Terminals> Harry Porter wrote:> > Assuming that it's known that a vp machine in play is a VLT (i.e.,> > the dealing mechanism is centrally based), is there some means by> > which to know with confidence that the machine is "fair" and > > operates analogously to a standard LV-certified machine when it > > comes to the randomness of the deal?> Linda Boyd replied:> I don't think anybody is trying to cheat or be unfair--the problem is> that sometimes officials just can't answer the question with any > confidence. They know there's a RNG required on their VLTs, but can't> define random number generator. If you read legislation from several > states you'll see the definitions/requirements vary when it comes to > VLTs.My concern stems from a state regulation that may be poorly written. Frankly, I could see where a state might permit hands to be dealt in afashion that would yield probabilities other than that of a randomdeal (akin to a card deck). One can argue that a patron should haveno fixed idea of probabilities and expect the same degree ofincalculable odds of any other slot machine.Setting that aside, if the state regulations are poorly defined in amanner that would permit a non-random deal and there aren't sufficienttesting measures to ensure one, I have no doubt that a casino wouldopt for equipment that would bias odds in their favor compared to thepaytable on the machines.> Linda Boyd wrote:> I spoke to Jim Logue from the Delaware lottery office--he went out of> his way to be helpful. Jim told me Spielo, IGT, Bally and Williams > were all approved manufacturers for their VLTs. He also said that all> of their VLTs had RNGs. The approved payback, however, is 87-95%--to > me, that's honest, but not fair. I believe that you can determine the> ER by using the pay table information on the VLT with tutorial > software.If it's the case that the deal is random (i.e. not biased toward agiven outcome), then certainly you can determine the ER based uponexpected hand distribution. I consider that quite "fair", inasmuch asa player can determine the odds of the game.In this case, I wouldn't expect a "full pay" machine to appear on thefloor with very weak payout restrictions such as this.I don't have first-hand experience with either DE or WV casinos (onwhich I focus since a question concerning casinos in thosejurisdictions gave rise to this thread). I will be VERY interested tosee what shows it's head in PA when the newly approved "slot parlors"being to open. If a "9/6" Jacks game is on the floor, I'll be dubiousof it's fairness. Even if played particularly poorly, it's difficultto imagine that the game would be profitable given the harsh PA taxesthat have been imposed on casinos.I'll note that in the case of Indian casinos that have IGT games, BobDancer has been emphatic in the fairness of those games. I acceptthat statement. However, I hold out reservations in general (no playon words intended ;). The often cited safeguard is that no game will be approved in NVunless the same game placed in other jurisdictions meets NVrequirements. How much, or how little, would you need to change agame appearing in another jurisdiction for it to be considereddifferent and not fall under the NV requirement? You'll forgive myskepticism in suggesting that it's corporate nature to take advantageof any profit opportunity presented, even if misleading.> I spoke to several officials in West Virginia--Diedra, Wilma and > finally Deputy Director Arnold. Once more, all officials working with> their lottery office were polite and accommodating. I was told by > Deputy Director Arnold that there was a RNG on all their VLTs, > including those in their non-casinos ... Their machines are > manufactured by IGT and Konami--their central control system was by > GTECH. However, the payback is 80-95% for their VLTs. Personally, I > find the payback to be unacceptable. Once more, I believe that the > game's ER can be determined by using the pay table information with > tutorial software.I've discussed in a separate post this morning that there's littlequestion that there is a RNG installed in WA state VLT's. That, byitself, doesn't assure a random deal and that's definitely not thecase there.Depending on the nature of the IGT machines (in particular), I don'thave confidence that these are randomly dealt machines. For thatmatter, IGT has gone into the central determinant VLT and Class IIbingo business, by virtue of their acquisition of SGT. They now havedeveloped Class II based machines based upon LV IGT standards ... andin most respects you can't tell the difference from a cursoryexamination (I don't know if the machines carry the IGT nameplate orif they're marked as other than Class III).Again, given my concerns, I wouldn't play in these states. Of course,that may well be a moot point if the paytables are consistent with a<95% game. You should find a 7/5 Jacks game, much less a 9/6 Jacks one.Of course, my paranoia kicks in once again. I can't help to wonder ifa machine that has a stronger than 95% paytable, but that is expectedto hold more than 5%, would be permitted under a poorly writtenstatute ;).Tell you what, I'll try to restrain myself and give this topic a rest.You've thoroughly responded to my questions and I suspect no one willcomplete assuage my concerns. (You'll hear back from me if 99%+ ERgames started popping up in PA ;)- HarryvpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
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