I recently heard that Video Keno is also considered a skill game
and ratings are penalized as are videopoker compared to
regular slots.
Never thought video keno was an advantage play. Am I
wrong?
video keno
George Lee wrote:
I recently heard that Video Keno is also considered a skill game
and ratings are penalized as are videopoker compared to
regular slots. Never thought video keno was an advantage play. Am I
wrong?
Video Keno is an unskilled play. However, in typically residing on
multigame machines that have stronger return video poker, video keno
is often penalized when it comes to rating of play -- this is because
multigame machines are generally (always) rated by the casino based
upon average hold and not game-by-game theos.
- H.
This past Sunday morning, I was playing all other games besides video poker
- hoping to save my four-of-a-kinds for the tournament.
So, I played some slots, roulette, etc. and then I played video keno. I had
never played video keno before becuase I knew that the odds are not
very good. But, I had time to kill and wanted to play 'something' while I
waited for my tournament session to start. So, I put in a twenty and played
a buck a game - just for fun.
After a few games, I hit 7 out of 10 for about $430. I don't plan on
playing video keno again any time soon. So, for me, it was an 'advantage'
play!
···
On 3/8/06, George Lee <glee4ever@yahoo.com> wrote:
I recently heard that Video Keno is also considered a skill game
and ratings are penalized as are videopoker compared to
regular slots.Never thought video keno was an advantage play. Am I
wrong?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
George Lee wrote:
> I recently heard that Video Keno is also considered a skill game
> and ratings are penalized as are videopoker compared to
> regular slots. Never thought video keno was an advantage play.
Am I
> wrong?
Video Keno is an unskilled play. However, in typically residing on
multigame machines that have stronger return video poker, video keno
is often penalized when it comes to rating of play -- this is because
multigame machines are generally (always) rated by the casino based
upon average hold and not game-by-game theos.- H.
Maybe 5 years ago I came across a promotion at John Ascuagua's Nugget
in Sparks, Nevada in which they were paying double for top line hits
in Video Keno. I went home and got out my Stanford Wong Casino
Tournament Strategy with the Keno probability tables in the back and
got the frequencies for 3/5, 4/5, 5/5 on a five-spot. I then went
back to the casino and checked payscales. I couldn't find a top line
hit paying enough to create an overlay until I found a game on those
IGT VLT looking machines called Top Hat Keno. I think the solid five
payed like 40% or 45% of the payback, hence the name Top Hat Keno. I
think the base game was around 90%. This created a nice overlay. It
wasn't long before they took the 5-spot off the promotion. Well let's
move up to the six-spot. So I went home and got out my Stanford....
To make a long story short, I walked in one day and there wasn't a Top
Hat Keno to be found on a machine anywhere.
Also, there was a deal with, I beleive, the keno game on the Williams
Multi-Game Machines some years ago in which Numbers on the outside
lines were hitting at twice the frequency they should. Of course,
nobody told me about it until it was over.
Probably the biggest progressive plays of All Time were Keno plays.
It happend in Florida at an Indian Casino. I wasn't there but I knew
people who were, and the sister of the brains and bankroll, a famous
machine pro name Tuna, told me it was going on. If they were to write
a book about Tuna it would have to be called something like "Multi-
Million Dollar Video Poker." Anyway, I was told it was a 4-coin
dollar progressive play in which Tuna sent his team in when the
progressive reached $200,000. It lasted several years and the team
got every one.
BTW, if they were to take a poll on who is the greatest machine pro of
all time amongst all of us Nevada machine pros who know of Tuna, he
would win because no one else would even get one vote.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:
Probably the biggest progressive plays of All Time were Keno plays.
It happend in Florida at an Indian Casino. I wasn't there but I knew
people who were, and the sister of the brains and bankroll, a famous
machine pro name Tuna, told me it was going on. If they were to write
a book about Tuna it would have to be called something like "Multi-
Million Dollar Video Poker." Anyway, I was told it was a 4-coin
dollar progressive play in which Tuna sent his team in when the
progressive reached $200,000. It lasted several years and the team
got every one.BTW, if they were to take a poll on who is the greatest machine pro of
all time amongst all of us Nevada machine pros who know of Tuna, he
would win because no one else would even get one vote.
Tuna is a great all around gambler...world class talent.
···
_________________________________________________________________________
coming soon: www.paladingaming.net
Tuna doesn't exist, he's a street legend, like Keyser Soze
> BTW, if they were to take a poll on who is the greatest machine
pro of
···
> all time amongst all of us Nevada machine pros who know of Tuna, he
> would win because no one else would even get one vote.
Tuna is a great all around gambler...world class talent.
nightoftheiguana2000 wrote:
Tuna doesn't exist, he's a street legend, like Keyser Soze
Yeah, right ... recall the other side of that legend? ...
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world
that he didn't exist."
- H. 
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:
Tuna doesn't exist, he's a street legend, like Keyser Soze
> > BTW, if they were to take a poll on who is the greatest machine
pro of
> > all time amongst all of us Nevada machine pros who know of
Tuna, he
> > would win because no one else would even get one vote.
> Tuna is a great all around gambler...world class talent.
He grew up in Sparks, Nevada. I know several people who have worked
for him. He has a 2nd place finish and a third place finish in the
final event of the WSOP. I watched hin at the final table in 92
when it was down to him, Tom Jacobs and Hamid Dastmalchi.
Dastmalchi won it. That was the first time I ever heard of him.
His real name is Hans Lund. 25 years ago he was a poker dealer at
the Cal Neva/Reno. Most people think he made his money playing
poker. Some, but not close to all of it. His machine team was
nationwide. If you ever had to stand on the rail while a big fat
play was going down because Tuna had all the machines monopolized
you would remember him. He's the main reason 8/5 jacks progressives
in this state no longer have 2% meters. He's killed more plays than
Carter has pills. If you know any Reno/Tahoe machine pros, ask them
about him. Now, let me ask you this: Is Kenny the Clone real or a
legend? Hint: Ask David Sklansky.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:
nightoftheiguana2000 wrote:
> Tuna doesn't exist, he's a street legend, like Keyser SozeYeah, right ... recall the other side of that legend? ...
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world
that he didn't exist."- H.
The Usual Suspects was a great movie. I'm still trying to figure it
out what happened.
But that reminded me of "gambling movies", and one in particular I
think is the greatest of them all, and few have seen. If you are
interested, watch The House of Games, directed by David Mamet in
1987, and based on his book with the same title. It's about a guy
(Joe Mantegna) with gambling debts who pursuades his brilliant lady
psychiatrist (Lindsay Crouse) to help him out.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:nightoftheiguana2000 wrote:
> Tuna doesn't exist, he's a street legend, like Keyser SozeYeah, right ... recall the other side of that legend? ...
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world
that he didn't exist."- H.
The Usual Suspects was a great movie. I'm still trying to figure it
out what happened.
It took me a while to understand it, but that's mainly what decides
what my favorite movies are. The more I can't understand, the better
I like it. My favorite television show ever was a serialized murder
mystery that got cancelled before the conclusion aired. It's the same
with magic acts. The numbers tricks that I understand just seem dumb
to me, but the physical tricks that I don't understand amaze me, even
though I assume that the explanation is as simple as it is with the
numbers tricks.
But that reminded me of "gambling movies", and one in particular I
think is the greatest of them all, and few have seen. If you are
interested, watch The House of Games, directed by David Mamet in
1987, and based on his book with the same title. It's about a guy
(Joe Mantegna) with gambling debts who pursuades his brilliant lady
psychiatrist (Lindsay Crouse) to help him out.
I highly recommend "Sour Grapes." It's a funny characterization of
some awful things that can happen when a big jackpot gets hit.
Does this imply that if one is playing a multigame machine, the casino
can't tell what specific game one is playing?
.SK56.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:
... this is because
multigame machines are generally (always) rated by the casino based
upon average hold and not game-by-game theos.
spamkiller56 wrote:
Does this imply that if one is playing a multigame machine, the casino
can't tell what specific game one is playing?
I can't speak authoritatively here -- only discuss this on the basis
of observations when speaking with hosts in reviewing my play, noting
what information is displayed on their information screens, and on the
basis of how play has been treated for comp/cb purposes. Hopefully
those with more accurate information will correct me where appropriate.
I can say that the IGT Game King multigame series maintains data
(coin-in, coin-out, etc.) by individual game. Can't comment on other
multigames (e.g. Bally Gaming). So it's reasonable to assume that the
capability of the machine to report play specifics may be there.
However, the system that transfers play information to their IS is
separate and distinct from the machines. The Slot Data System (SDS)
is likely the weak link here, at least at present. This isn't to say
that SDS aren't relatively sophisticated systems. They allow casinos
to manage player rewards and gives Harrah's the ability to perform
fairly impressive floor play traffic analysis.
From what I've observed, play is only reported on an aggregate basis
when you end your machine session. In briefly reviewing the
information screens at the host station (and I've had a couple of
hosts who've led me line by line through portions of the screen,
allowing a pretty good gander at the whole thing), there's been no
indication of anything but aggregate data reported for machine
sessions. Further, the theoreticals reported on my play have strongly
suggested no game differentiation. But this is all anecdotal and far
from a solid basis for the inferences I've drawn.
The most conclusive observation is that within any given casino
theoretical profit calculated for a given game often can vary from one
machine to the next. This is true of comp rates and cashback (in
those cases where different cashback/bounceback rates are assigned to
different machines) as well.
When taken as a whole, this leads me to believe that there is no
differentiation in game play on a multigame. This doesn't seem
unreasonable. Multigames are a small fraction of overall floor
inventory and, to date, it simply may not have been deem economical to
refine reporting.
This will likely change. SDS systems are sophisticated and the
modifications required for more detailed reporting are far from rocket
science.
- Harry
So Tuna is a fish story?
Chandler
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
nightoftheiguana2000
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:18 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: video keno
Tuna doesn't exist, he's a street legend, like Keyser Soze
I can speak authoritatively. Only two systems currently on the
market, ACRES and Oasis have the ability to track this. Most casinos
don't bother to use this ability even if they have a system that
gives them the capability.
Nevada Gaming has ordered that all tracking systems be able to track
every meter in the machine. However, under industry pressure the
effective date has been pushed back. Also, NJ takes forever to
approve new machine tracking systems.
So the short answer is, right now, they probably cannot tell this. So
if you play a machine that gets a lot of Keno, Black Rhino and other
high-hold games you will have a better chance of being over-comp'd.
Bill
···
At 05:10 AM 3/10/2006, you wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:
>
> ... this is because
> multigame machines are generally (always) rated by the casino based
> upon average hold and not game-by-game theos.Does this imply that if one is playing a multigame machine, the casino
can't tell what specific game one is playing?.SK56.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
soif you play a machine that gets a lot of Keno, Black Rhino and other
high-hold games you will have a better chance of being over-comp'd.Bill
This is why my 10 hr/day AA play at LVH on quarter machines with heavy
9/6 DB and keno is better than 3 hr $ PKM play at the bar where pretty
much only PKM is played.
dipy911