vpFREE2 Forums

Video Blackjack

#1

I noticed there are some expert "Blackjack" players on this site.
I would like to ask a couple of strategy questions concerning video
blackjack that is on some older VP Machines. Assume the following
rules that I have seen on some machines.

1. Dealer stands on a Soft 17
2. You can Double on Splits
3. You can Split Aces once
4. Blackjack pays 1:1
5. You are allowed a Late Surrender
6. You can Double on any 2 cards accept if dealer has an ACE
7. If dealer Up Card is an ACE you can ONLY Stand or Hit

Do you ever surrender a 2 card 15 againt a 10?

Do you ever stand with a 3 or more card 16 against a 10?
Do you ever stand with a 3 card 15 against a 15?
Do you ever stand with a 3 or more card 12 against a 3?
Do you ever Hit with a 3 or more card 13 against a 2?

  I also was wondering about 2 card hands such as:
With an 8 of (6+2) vs a 5 or 6 if you hit instead of a stand?
With a 12 of (7+5),or (8+4),or (10+2) vs a 4 or 6 do you
  hit instead of stand?
With a 13 containing a (10+3) vs a Dealer 2 do you hit instead
  of standing?

I have heard of the Dr Pepper rule which is the (10+2) vs
  a 4 in the above list, but what about the others.
I am also aware of the above hand composition change called
the "Rule of 45" It states that any time your 16 hand contains
a 4 or 5 you stand against a 10.

But what about these other hand composition hands? And again,
what about the surrender of a 2 card 15 against a 10?

  Sorry about this slight diversion from video poker, but
I would really appreciate some guidance so that I can confidently
learn any of these possible changes from basic BJ strategy.

Thanks,
Bob

#2

With all due respect, why would you want to play this game? The even money
on a natural makes this a *horrible* game. Even learning the proper
variation on all the questions you asked would still present you with a game
that will eat you alive :frowning:

···

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:49 AM, futrend <futrend@yahoo.com> wrote:

   I noticed there are some expert "Blackjack" players on this site.
I would like to ask a couple of strategy questions concerning video
blackjack that is on some older VP Machines. Assume the following
rules that I have seen on some machines.

1. Dealer stands on a Soft 17
2. You can Double on Splits
3. You can Split Aces once
4. Blackjack pays 1:1
5. You are allowed a Late Surrender
6. You can Double on any 2 cards accept if dealer has an ACE
7. If dealer Up Card is an ACE you can ONLY Stand or Hit

Do you ever surrender a 2 card 15 againt a 10?

Do you ever stand with a 3 or more card 16 against a 10?
Do you ever stand with a 3 card 15 against a 15?
Do you ever stand with a 3 or more card 12 against a 3?
Do you ever Hit with a 3 or more card 13 against a 2?

I also was wondering about 2 card hands such as:
With an 8 of (6+2) vs a 5 or 6 if you hit instead of a stand?
With a 12 of (7+5),or (8+4),or (10+2) vs a 4 or 6 do you
hit instead of stand?
With a 13 containing a (10+3) vs a Dealer 2 do you hit instead
of standing?

I have heard of the Dr Pepper rule which is the (10+2) vs
a 4 in the above list, but what about the others.
I am also aware of the above hand composition change called
the "Rule of 45" It states that any time your 16 hand contains
a 4 or 5 you stand against a 10.

But what about these other hand composition hands? And again,
what about the surrender of a 2 card 15 against a 10?

Sorry about this slight diversion from video poker, but
I would really appreciate some guidance so that I can confidently
learn any of these possible changes from basic BJ strategy.

Thanks,
Bob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/strategy/1deck.html
http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/appendix3c.html

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" <futrend@...> wrote:

I would like to ask a couple of strategy questions concerning video
blackjack that is on some older VP Machines.

#4

Full pay is 5 for 2 on blackjacks.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Salguero <salguero@...> wrote:

The even money
on a natural makes this a *horrible* game.

#5

Where are you pulling that from? That is not stated in the original query -
poster has it as 1:1

···

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 1:57 PM, nightoftheiguana2000 < nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

  --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>, Dennis
Salguero <salguero@...> wrote:
> The even money
> on a natural makes this a *horrible* game.

Full pay is 5 for 2 on blackjacks.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

Where are you pulling that from? That is not stated in the original query -

poster has it as 1:1<

in Video BJ a 2 to 1 BJ pays your dollar bet plus $1=1to1...a 5 to 2 Video BJ is equal to the 3 to 2 BJ on the table....there are still some 5 to 2 Video BJ machines, but no one is going to tell you where they are.

···

--- On Wed, 1/21/09, Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Video Blackjack
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 2:56 PM

Where are you pulling that from? That is not stated in the original query -
poster has it as 1:1

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 1:57 PM, nightoftheiguana2000 < nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

  --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>, Dennis
Salguero <salguero@...> wrote:
> The even money
> on a natural makes this a *horrible* game.

Full pay is 5 for 2 on blackjacks.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

That doesn't change the original poster's question about a natural at 1:1
and refining his game, right?

···

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:35 PM, sibercat <glenbob@yahoo.com> wrote:

  >Where are you pulling that from? That is not stated in the original
query -
poster has it as 1:1<

in Video BJ a 2 to 1 BJ pays your dollar bet plus $1=1to1...a 5 to 2 Video
BJ is equal to the 3 to 2 BJ on the table....there are still some 5 to 2
Video BJ machines, but no one is going to tell you where they are.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

First, I want to respectfully say that I appreciate ANY
response to ANY post that I might make.

However, I asked some specific questions with total awareness
of the expected value of a 1 to 1 blackjack. Those questions
were ignore and the focus became one of various blackjack
values.

The particular blackjack rule variation I mentioned is worth
a negative 2.27% compared to a positive 2.27% on a 2:1
blackjack. Only slightly less negative is 6-5 blackjack since
it losses 1.87%. Doubling on only 10 and 11 is worth -0.18%
and double on only 9-11 is only slightly better at a negative
0.09%. I could go on with other rule variation values, but
these valuations were not the point or focus of my request.

Also, as suggested in another response, I am also keenly
aware of the Wizard of Odds excellent cite. This was the only
other none "blackjack value" response to my original question.
One of the reason for some of my specific questions were
because of conflicting advise that I have seen in some other
sources concerning these specific strategy plays I mentioned.

So I am back to "ground zero" and again ask if anyone has
a knowledgeable opinion on the specific questions asked.
I promise not to post the questions again on this site if
those question are not addressed.

By the way, the new "high definition" blackjack consoles
that are showing up pay 3 to 2 for blackjack, but they are
6 deck games. There are some other rule variations, like
those mentioned in the paragraph 2 of my original post, that
one also needs to consider when analyzing these new video
blackjack games.

Again, thanks, BTW, I will take the casino location of any
2:1 video blackjack game in place an answers to any of my
questions!

Bob

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Salguero <salguero@...>
wrote:

With all due respect, why would you want to play this game?
The > > even money> on a natural makes this a *horrible* game.
Even learning the proper variation on all the questions you
asked would still present you with a game that will eat you
alive:

Video Blackjack

I noticed there are some expert "Blackjack" players on this site.
I would like to ask a couple of strategy questions concerning video
blackjack that is on some older VP Machines. Assume the following
rules that I have seen on some machines.

1. Dealer stands on a Soft 17
2. You can Double on Splits
3. You can Split Aces once
4. Blackjack pays 1:1
5. You are allowed a Late Surrender
6. You can Double on any 2 cards accept if dealer has an ACE
7. If dealer Up Card is an ACE you can ONLY Stand or Hit

Do you ever surrender a 2 card 15 againt a 10?

Do you ever stand with a 3 or more card 16 against a 10?
Do you ever stand with a 3 card 15 against a 15?
Do you ever stand with a 3 or more card 12 against a 3?
Do you ever Hit with a 3 or more card 13 against a 2?

I also was wondering about 2 card hands such as:
With an 8 of (6+2) vs a 5 or 6 if you hit instead of a stand?
With a 12 of (7+5),or (8+4),or (10+2) vs a 4 or 6 do you
hit instead of stand? With a 13 containing a (10+3) vs a Dealer
2 do you hit instead of standing?

I have heard of the Dr Pepper rule which is the (10+2) vs
a 4 in the above list, but what about the others.
I am also aware of the above hand composition change called
the "Rule of 45" It states that any time your 16 hand contains
a 4 or 5 you stand against a 10.

But what about these other hand composition hands? And again,
what about the surrender of a 2 card 15 against a 10?

Sorry about this slight diversion from video poker, but
I would really appreciate some guidance so that I can confidently
learn any of these possible changes from basic BJ strategy.

Thanks,
Bob

···

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:49 AM, futrend@...> wrote:

#9

Also, as suggested in another response, I am also keenly
aware of the Wizard of Odds excellent cite.

Then why are you asking the questions?

One of the reason for some of my specific questions were
because of conflicting advise that I have seen in some other
sources concerning these specific strategy plays I mentioned.

Wizard is the gold source. He's a UNLV professor of gambling and
consults to casinos. Mistakes at the wizard's site are rare. He also
has a complete deuces wild strategy, more exact than Bob Dancer:
http://wizardofodds.com/deuceswild

Again, thanks, BTW, I will take the casino location of any
2:1 video blackjack game in place an answers to any of my
questions!

The good games are all over the place, you just have to know what you
are looking for and to go look for it.

http://www.trackerschool.com/course_template_details_new_courses.asp?id=53&tid=7

Once they are published on the internet however, management (who also
reads the internet) soon pulls them or puts a team on them until they
are played out. So the only good games available are those not yet
published on the internet.

Do you ever surrender a 2 card 15 againt a 10?

Sure, why not? Try T5 and 96. Source: Griffin.

Do you ever stand with a 3 or more card 16 against a 10?

Wizard.

Do you ever stand with a 3 card 15 against a 15?

Wizard.

Do you ever stand with a 3 or more card 12 against a 3?

Wizard.

Do you ever Hit with a 3 or more card 13 against a 2?

Wizard.

I also was wondering about 2 card hands such as:
With an 8 of (6+2) vs a 5 or 6 if you hit instead of a stand?
With a 12 of (7+5),or (8+4),or (10+2) vs a 4 or 6 do you
hit instead of stand? With a 13 containing a (10+3) vs a Dealer
2 do you hit instead of standing?

Wizard.

I have heard of the Dr Pepper rule which is the (10+2) vs
a 4 in the above list, but what about the others.

Wizard.

But what about these other hand composition hands?

Wizard.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" <futrend@...> wrote:

#10

Bob,

Sorry about the delayed response: I must have missed this query!

My answers are interspersed with your questions below!

1. Dealer stands on a Soft 17
2. You can Double on Splits
3. You can Split Aces once
4. Blackjack pays 1:1
5. You are allowed a Late Surrender
6. You can Double on any 2 cards accept if dealer has an ACE
7. If dealer Up Card is an ACE you can ONLY Stand or Hit

Do you ever surrender a 2 card 15 againt a 10?

Yes, surrender T,5 and 9,6 vs. T. With 8,7 don't surrender: hit
instead.

Do you ever stand with a 3 or more card 16 against a 10?

Always stand with any three-or-more-card 16 vs. T. Also, stand on any
two-card 16 (except 8-8, if you can split again) vs. T IF THE 16
RESULTS FROM A PAIR SPLIT. You failed to indicate the limit on
splitting non-A's: most machines I've seen allow only a single split.
If that's the case, then if you're dealt 8,8 vs. T, you'd split. If
either 8 receives another 8, you should then stand on the resulting 2-
card 16.

In fact, the only way you'd have a 2-card hard 16 vs. a T after a
pair
split is if you split 8's, because the only other pair you'd split
against a T are A's, and you cannot have a 2-card hard 16 if one card
is an Ace.

Do you ever stand with a 3 card 15 against a 15?

I assume you meant "...against a 10" rather than a "15". No, you
should always Hit your three (or more) card 15's vs. a T.

Do you ever stand with a 3 or more card 12 against a 3?

Against a 3, the only 12 you should hit is T,2. Stand with 9,3 vs. 3,
8,4 vs. 3, and any 3-or-more-card 12 vs. 3.

Do you ever Hit with a 3 or more card 13 against a 2?

No. Stand on ALL 13's vs. a 2.

I also was wondering about 2 card hands such as:
With an 8 of (6+2) vs a 5 or 6 if you hit instead of a stand?

Double 6,2 and 5,3 vs. 5. Double 5,3 vs. 6, but hit 6,2 vs. 6.

With 4,4 vs. either 5 or 6, split if you can (because of the Double
After Split rule), otherwise double. This one changes if the rules do
NOT allow DAS: if NoDAS, simply double on 4,4 vs. 5 or 6.

With a 12 of (7+5),or (8+4),or (10+2) vs a 4 or 6 do you
hit instead of stand?

Hit T,2 vs. 4. Stand on all the other cases.

With a 13 containing a (10+3) vs a Dealer
2 do you hit instead of standing?

No. Stand on ALL 13's vs. a 2.

All of these answers come from Table B4, page 481 of Don
Schlesinger's invaluable Blackjack Attack 3.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand