vpFREE2 Forums

Venetian 8/5 Bank

#1

Faith has nothing to do with it.

They change the machines from 9/6 to 8/5 on a daily basis. You absolutely
cannot know if they will be full pay or short pay each day.

For some big invitational events, I was told by my host that 9/6 JOB will be
offered in specific denominations, like $25 and higher. For some earlier
events, that paytable was offered on dollar multiline and higher, then removed
when the event was concluded. When they removed them, they missed a couple, so
you don't really know what you might find.

Wednesday before last, there were SIX machines (3 uprights, 3 slant tops) in
the Venetian HL room with $5 and $10 9/6 JOB, plus one $5 at Palazzo, plus
one $25 machine at the V. Six days later, there were a total of ZERO machines
with that game. I personally checked. The game was not made short pay, it was
removed entirely from the machine.

If you wish to go there every day and check machines, more power to you. But
including them in the vpFREE database is just plain silly. Might as well say
that a butterfly lives on your head, because one landed there for ten
seconds, a month ago.

Brian

···

==========================================

In a message dated 8/10/2008 10:44:11 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bornloser1537@yahoo.com writes:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

One can't "assume" that, especially at the Venetian!!!!!!!
________________
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler

LOL! Oh, ye of little faith!

..... bl

**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

For years, gambling authors and gambling celebrities have been
alleging that casinos do not frequently change payouts on machines.
They've given reasons such as "it's too difficult" or "it's too time
consuming" for the casino to change computer chips on a regular
basis.

Obviously, it's not *that* inconvenient for the casinos to change the
payouts whenever they want, depending on the crowd they expect
that day.

I've known all along that the articles in the gambling magazines, the
television shows about Vegas, and the various gaming websites
were full of crap.

Curtis

···

On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 2:56 PM, <bjaygold@aol.com> wrote:

They change the machines from 9/6 to 8/5 on a daily basis. You absolutely
cannot know if they will be full pay or short pay each day.

For some big invitational events, I was told by my host that 9/6 JOB will
be
offered in specific denominations, like $25 and higher. For some earlier
events, that paytable was offered on dollar multiline and higher, then
removed
when the event was concluded. When they removed them, they missed a couple,
so
you don't really know what you might find.

Wednesday before last, there were SIX machines (3 uprights, 3 slant tops)
in
the Venetian HL room with $5 and $10 9/6 JOB, plus one $5 at Palazzo, plus
one $25 machine at the V. Six days later, there were a total of ZERO
machines
with that game. I personally checked. The game was not made short pay, it
was
removed entirely from the machine.

If you wish to go there every day and check machines, more power to you.
But
including them in the vpFREE database is just plain silly. Might as well
say
that a butterfly lives on your head, because one landed there for ten
seconds, a month ago.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

Curtis,

Just for the record it has been a long time since I've heard anyone say this, although I'm not saying you haven't.

While it only takes a few seconds to change the paytable on a modern Game King or Game Maker (many games are on the chip, so chips no longer need replacing), there are a number of expenses. Security is often monitoring and there are usually (not always) 2 techs involved, checking each other's work to make sure the right paytable was selected. Then, paperwork has to be filed internally and, usually, the database must be updated. Finally, there was a time when paperwork had to be filed with Gaming but I believe a "minor" change only requires the correct documentation be maintained in the slot department subject to audit (I may not have this last completely correct, if not I apologize).

This does involve some cost to the casino even for the 5 or 6 machines involved. And, as has been noted, mistakes still happen. So until server-based gaming becomes widespread in a few years frequent changes of paytables will remain anomalies. It's still a good idea to check the paytable every time you play.

Some magazines, like Strictly Slots and Casino Player are incredibly careless with the facts and make many mistakes (when I was writing for them a couple of years ago they NEVER fact checked). Some authors might honestly not know current technology or practices. The TV shows also might be several years old and not up-to-date. Web sites from truly knowledgeable people like wizardofodds.com are extremely reliable but still might contain some errors.

B

···

At 03:29 PM 8/10/2008, you wrote:

For years, gambling authors and gambling celebrities have been
alleging that casinos do not frequently change payouts on machines.
They've given reasons such as "it's too difficult" or "it's too time
consuming" for the casino to change computer chips on a regular
basis.

Obviously, it's not *that* inconvenient for the casinos to change the
payouts whenever they want, depending on the crowd they expect
that day.

I've known all along that the articles in the gambling magazines, the
television shows about Vegas, and the various gaming websites
were full of crap.

Curtis

On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 2:56 PM, <bjaygold@aol.com> wrote:

> They change the machines from 9/6 to 8/5 on a daily basis. You absolutely
> cannot know if they will be full pay or short pay each day.
>
> For some big invitational events, I was told by my host that 9/6 JOB will
> be
> offered in specific denominations, like $25 and higher. For some earlier
> events, that paytable was offered on dollar multiline and higher, then
> removed
> when the event was concluded. When they removed them, they missed a couple,
> so
> you don't really know what you might find.
>
> Wednesday before last, there were SIX machines (3 uprights, 3 slant tops)
> in
> the Venetian HL room with $5 and $10 9/6 JOB, plus one $5 at Palazzo, plus
> one $25 machine at the V. Six days later, there were a total of ZERO
> machines
> with that game. I personally checked. The game was not made short pay, it
> was
> removed entirely from the machine.
>
> If you wish to go there every day and check machines, more power to you.
> But
> including them in the vpFREE database is just plain silly. Might as well
> say
> that a butterfly lives on your head, because one landed there for ten
> seconds, a month ago.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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#4

Curtis Rich wrote:

For years, gambling authors and gambling celebrities have been
alleging that casinos do not frequently change payouts on machines.
They've given reasons such as "it's too difficult" or "it's too time
consuming" for the casino to change computer chips on a regular
basis.

I'm still not sure I get that "chip change" thing. Game King setup
menus show an option to select a game table (by % return) for a given
game. Beyond requiring the insertion of an authorized key in the
machine, is something more required?

- Harry

#5

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:

I'm still not sure I get that "chip change" thing. Game King setup
menus show an option to select a game table (by % return) for a
given game. Beyond requiring the insertion of an authorized key in
the > machine, is something more required?

- Harry

All this talk of chips and keys. The Venetian has all your heads
spinning.

But not mine. Just received an offer of $1000 Slot Credit, 2-4 nights
in a Renaissance Suite and $200 in dining.

I'm not the least bit interested.

If the Venetian wants good players they can stop all the tinkering
and adjustments. I'm not coming to Vegas hoping it might be
the "right day" to get a playable machine.

#6

Why not come to Vegas, collect your $1,000, eat a meal and don't play?

···

=================================================
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@>
wrote:
But not mine. Just received an offer of $1000 Slot Credit, 2-4 nights
in a Renaissance Suite and $200 in dining.
If the Venetian wants good players they can stop all the tinkering
and adjustments. I'm not coming to Vegas hoping it might be
the "right day" to get a playable machine.

#7

I have a slant-top MGMD GameKing manufactured 8/98 with a 17in touch
screen monitor.

The game chip (40 pins) has 59 distinct games including a few Keno,
slot, and a Blackjack game. Each game has a varying number of paytables
given as a percent payback. The denominations run 1c, 2c, 5c, 10c, 20c,
25c, 50c, 1$, 2$, 5$, 10$, and 25$. For each denomination you can
select up to 12 games to be displayed. To change anything, you need
what is called a "KEY" chip (another 40 pin chip). You need to power
off the machine, open up the front and pull out the electronic rack.
Then you need to remove the game chip which is in a socket. Since it is
easy to damage the pins, I added a ZIF socket (Zero Insertion Force).
Then you replace the game chip with the KEY chip. Replace the pull out
electronic rack. Then start up the machine. After that you have the
option of clearing registers and games as such. When done, you will
need to shut it down again swap out the KEY chip with the game chip.
Then start up again with the game chip. Note that denominations, games
and paytable has yet to be selected.

Now you can select any denominations and add the games with paytable
based on percent payback. You do not see the paytables only the percent
payback so you will need to know what the percent payback is for the
paytables. For example you need to know that FPDW has a 100.8%
payback. You will also need to use the slot attendant key to select
some options too. After selecting everything from the touch screen
menus, you will need to shut it down one more time.

Now when you start it up again, it will look normal with the games and
denominations that you selected. So if you wanted, you could have just
one game at one denomination or you could have up to 144 games (12 games
at each of the 12 denominations). You can not have two of the same
games such as FPDW and NSUD (just different paytables) at the same
denomination. However, you can have Deuces and Loose Deuces and Double
Deuces all at the same denomination as they are different games.

If you want to change/add denomination, games, or paytable percents, you
will need to repeat this.

Hope this helps.

Dennis
vp-connoisseur

Curtis Rich wrote:

For years, gambling authors and gambling celebrities have been
alleging that casinos do not frequently change payouts on machines.
They've given reasons such as "it's too difficult" or "it's too time
consuming" for the casino to change computer chips on a regular
basis.
   
I'm still not sure I get that "chip change" thing. Game King setup
menus show an option to select a game table (by % return) for a given
game. Beyond requiring the insertion of an authorized key in the
machine, is something more required?

- Harry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Why not come to Vegas, collect your $1,000, eat a meal and don't

play?

Because I think the short-term gain of a free trip sends the wrong
message to casino marketing.

First, they are attracting a decent player (me) in the midst of
downgrading machines. We shouldn't reward them with our business.

Second, if I do as you say and not play, my future with them
deteriorates due to the poor trip. I am leaving open the possibility
that the Venetian might come to their senses and reinstate playable
machines at lower denominations.

The Venetian is a great place to stay and eat. But so was Caesars
before Harrahs trashed it. So I don't stay there any more either.

I can't criticize anybody for taking advantage of any offer. It is a
personal decision. But, for me, I don't want to waste time at a
casino where I wouldn't be playing. My time is better spent playing
where not only am I comfortable but my business respected.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "skiallsix" <emailscot@...> wrote: