vpFREE2 Forums

Unacceptable request of vpFREE

TS, your allowed email had three points but with a hard spam blocker
has now vanished. I go from memory. As you were never in my address
book, it's obvious I had no desire to chat.
1. The actual winner in Fri-Sun posts was... vpFREE forms and I, at
least, was responding to messages. I post, as many do in short time
periods after reading up to several hundred. Longer than a week at
times. I don't even allow a digest as most is uninteresting to a
Texan who hates LV's circus. I posted none, as on most days, Sunday
while you went wild with items which meant nothing to me.

2. Your demand I post in a style acceptable to you is absurd. While
I feel confident you'd find both Thesis and Dissertation english
very readable, there remain different strokes fer different blokes.
U no like, go jump.

3. I repost the lengthy messages which come to me as, apparently, do
most. If you wish short replies, provide a delete msg line. Nothing
worse than attempting to delete portions of post to find the pearl
of wisdom I lavished such attention to has also disapperaed. CD

Since Don has chosen to take this public, I'm appending the
email that I sent him below. I don't have any further comments.

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 19 Jan 2004 at 17:30, crazydonconcepts wrote:

TS, your allowed email had three points but with a hard spam blocker has
now vanished. I go from memory. As you were never in my address book,
it's obvious I had no desire to chat.

                       ******************

From: vp_FREE <vpFREE@Cox.net>
To: "crazydonconcepts" <crazydonconcepts@earthlink.net>
Subject: PRIVATE
Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:52:26 -0800

Don:

IMO your posting frequency and style on vpFREE have
become disruptive.

I find a lot of your posts to be interesting and informative,
but they would be much better if you used plain english,
as you've shown that you're capable of, rather than CD
speak. In any event, it's not good when anyone monopolizes
discussions, as you have recently.

Also, when you post you should delete everything in the
message you're replying to except the relevant part, and
you should always have a blank line between your comments
and theirs.

Tom Sims
vpFREE Administrator

TS, your allowed email had three points but with a hard spam blocker
has now vanished. I go from memory. As you were never in my address
book, it's obvious I had no desire to chat.

Am I alone in my thinking that someone has decided to go off of his meds?
                               Nudge

···

From: "crazydonconcepts" <crazydonconcepts@earthlink.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Unacceptable request of vpFREE

No you are not.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "nudge51" <nudge51@cox.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Unacceptable request of vpFREE

From: "crazydonconcepts" <crazydonconcepts@earthlink.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Unacceptable request of vpFREE

> TS, your allowed email had three points but with a hard spam blocker
> has now vanished. I go from memory. As you were never in my address
> book, it's obvious I had no desire to chat.

Am I alone in my thinking that someone has decided to go off of his meds?
                               Nudge

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Gosh, dare I reply? My own meds? 800mg Ibuprofin twice daily as
needed with a baby aspirin ( I think to keep mind young) last 40 or
so years. How dare you tell me how to say what to say in a public
forum ? I was told this joint was open for discussions. Tom Wolf was
wrong, bd 'haps, minds... no. Much of the bd is very useless to many
of us. I've not complained the brief time here.Freedom is to ignore
not censor, unless silliness IS offensive as it appears. I'M
bothered by your tone much as you're bothered by mine. Who gets the
push? I really don't care for your opinion as stated AND I would
have posted same, but the delete disappeared it. So much for 2/3ds
of msg. Let me carve out the remains here and I guess my initial
trepidation is other 1/3rd. Closed open forum does seem useless.CD

Administrator.....(doggone, wouldn't delete)

While

I feel confident you'd find both Thesis and Dissertation english
very readable, there remain different strokes fer different blokes.

Actually I find reading a Thesis easier and more enjoyable. A good place to
start is
http://www.dissertationsandtheses.com/

regards...Tom

···

From: "crazydonconcepts" <crazydonconcepts@earthlink.net>

regards...Tom

First Bill Velek. Now, Crazy Don. I don't get it. Their styles may be
different than most, but aren't those differences what makes life
great. I say post away. It seems the same few people complain whenever
somebody has a different style or view or message. Less moderation.
More views.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@n...> wrote:

From: "crazydonconcepts" <crazydonconcepts@e...>

> http://www.dissertationsandtheses.com/

I know it may have come across as nasty, but I think TS was merely
giving you some pointers on board "netiquette". You gotta admit that
your obscure references and abbreviations make your writings
difficult to comprehend Don! And Tom is no meanie, he's just an
underappreciated web-meister!

But I enjoy your posts, Don: each is a bit of a riddle, and a unique
style. Don't let the bast*ds get you down, CD!

Besides, we don't have RS to kick around any more! LOL.

If the Wolfpack is getting bored without CONTENT to post about, let's
turn our attentions to the posters that are more mean-spirited than
Crazy Don! Geez. Better yet, stick to VP.

  ~Mark P

--- crazydon wrote:

···

Gosh, dare I reply?
How dare you tell me how to say what to say in a public
forum ? I was told this joint was open for discussions. <SNIP>
Closed open forum does seem useless.CD

While that may be valid in this latest case it is not Bill Velek's
views but his admitted haste in posting whether he has facts or not &
without really trying to see if his question is sensible.

> From: "crazydonconcepts" <crazydonconcepts@e...>
>
> > http://www.dissertationsandtheses.com/
>
>
regards...Tom

First Bill Velek. Now, Crazy Don. I don't get it. Their styles may

be

different than most, but aren't those differences what makes life
great. I say post away. It seems the same few people complain

whenever

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpbauer1" <dbauer33@c...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@n...> wrote:
somebody has a different style or view or message. Less moderation.
More views.

This will seem like a strange idea to some, but:

If someone's postings annoy me, I simply delete all
future posts from them without reading them. Same
thing for postings with Subject Lines of no interest
to me.

carlos

PS If you're like me, you get too damn many emails
every day anyway.

···

--- vpbauer1 <dbauer33@cox.net> wrote:

---------------------------------
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush"
<tomflush@n...> wrote:

From: "crazydonconcepts" <crazydonconcepts@e...>

> http://www.dissertationsandtheses.com/

regards...Tom

First Bill Velek. Now, Crazy Don. I don't get it.
Their styles may be
different than most, but aren't those differences what
makes life
great. I say post away. It seems the same few people
complain whenever
somebody has a different style or view or message.
Less moderation.
More views.

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http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

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Terms of Service.

I love this group and all the information it provides but I don't
think the moderator should be send these type of emails. It smacks
of being a Dictator.

> TS, your allowed email had three points but with a hard spam

blocker has

> now vanished. I go from memory. As you were never in my address

book,

···

On Martin Luther King Day, I say let freedom reign including freedom speech. --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_FREE" <vpFREE@C...> wrote:

On 19 Jan 2004 at 17:30, crazydonconcepts wrote:
> it's obvious I had no desire to chat.

Since Don has chosen to take this public, I'm appending the
email that I sent him below. I don't have any further comments.

vpFREE Administrator

                       ******************

From: vp_FREE <vpFREE@C...>
To: "crazydonconcepts" <crazydonconcepts@e...>
Subject: PRIVATE
Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 21:52:26 -0800

Don:

IMO your posting frequency and style on vpFREE have
become disruptive.

I find a lot of your posts to be interesting and informative,
but they would be much better if you used plain english,
as you've shown that you're capable of, rather than CD
speak. In any event, it's not good when anyone monopolizes
discussions, as you have recently.

Also, when you post you should delete everything in the
message you're replying to except the relevant part, and
you should always have a blank line between your comments
and theirs.

Tom Sims
vpFREE Administrator

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "hansjurgent" <hansjurgent16@h...>
wrote:

I love this group and all the information it provides but I don't
think the moderator should be send these type of emails. It smacks
of being a Dictator.

Wow, the original email I saw from the moderator was polite and
constructive. The poster was the disruptive voice. Had the poster
engaged in a more adult exchange with the moderator in email, all
this foo faw wouldn't be wasting bandwidth and his posts would be
more redily accessable to a broader audience. For goodness sakes he
was giving style pointers, not trying to change the content. Take a
deep breath and accept this is a moderated forum.

Tom Sims, who IIRC is not only a moderator but also the creator and owner of this group, is certainly entitled to make reasonable requests about posting behaviors. I'm sure his is a thankless job, and I think he has managed to do it very well. I remember how things were on VPHeaven, so I appreciate the value of a moderated forum, and I don't think that the small amount of moderation which takes place here has been either unreasonable or detrimental in the least bit to the discussion of any and all VP topics. Thank you, Tom.

Now, whether or not we agree with Tom's request to crazydon, at least he made it via private email, which cd then chose to make public; I wasn't given the same polite consideration when a couple of folks (not Tom or anyone other _moderator_, by the way) took it upon themselves to elect themselves as spokespersons for the group to tell me publicly that I was posting too much. I found that rather embarrassing and certainly would have preferred if those folks would have been considerate enough to contact me via email first, but they didn't try that. However, rather then react by telling them how to use a delete key and how presumptuous and arrogant I found those posts -- especially considering that they are not even moderators -- I did some soul searching instead, realized they were actually right, and I then publicly apologized to the entire group and immediately and dramatically reduced the number of posts I make. I even went back and started deleting my own posts from the archives to save Tom the trouble (a project not yet completed), but as far as I'm concerned, that is all water under the bridge; now I just want to get on with VP discussions, and to not be further embarrassed by the past because there is really no need for that now, is there?

Now "vpbauer1", in response to Tom's request to 'cd' about his posting frequency, has brought my name up with the remark: "First Bill Velek. Now, Crazy Don. I don't get it." ... snip. I would have had no problem if it stopped there; vpbauer was merely making a point about people being asked to post less, and did it without getting into ancient history. But then Michael Boutot wrote:

While that may be valid in this latest case it is not Bill Velek's
views but his admitted haste in posting whether he has facts or not &
without really trying to see if his question is sensible.

snip

First, Mr. Boutot, was there really any need for that? The discussion is NOW about cd and perhaps the fairness of Tom's request. Second, quite a few people here would disagree with your _opinion_ of my posts, but that's beside the point. The truth is that there are a number of members who could be quite _fairly_ criticized for an assortment of 'practices' that they employ here, yet I don't recall you making a point of pursuing it with any of them as you appear to be doing with me. I can't recall ever attacking or even criticizing you at any time, and I've tried to make it a practice of watching what I say about or to others, liberally apologizing with sincerity whenever I have suspected that I might have offended anyone. I therefore don't know what your problem is besides possibly not knowing how to use a delete key or how to set up a filter to automatically delete posts from me. I don't expect everyone to like me, and I don't really care. What I do care about is my name being unfairly brought up and publicly kicked around all over again after I thought I had done a pretty fair job of modifying my participation on this board. Now, do I need to adopt a fake name and come back here in order to start over again, or are you going to be big enough to let bygones be bygones ... or otherwise just ignore me?

Second, if you have a personal problem with me, I would think that vast majority of members here would probably prefer that you send any personal attacks or criticisms via private email rather than as public posts. My preference is that you just ignore me and I'll ignore you. Can you manage that?

Bill Velek

Many people aren't in such a rush to give thier view - valid or
otherwise - that they need to get the posts by e-mail so your
arrogant comments about the delete key have no meaning (the norm for
you). You are stuck saying nothing over & over in the midst of my
flipping through the expanded messages with no way to skip. You
apologized in the past for posting when poorly informed & too often
then came back & did the same. This latest was the 2nd time. The
pointless underlining; that "revelation" that Indian casinos are
federally regulated (it has always been how well & to what extent
that has been the issue); & other recent posts show there has been no
change at all. This is a posting list not a things to do diary (ie
some actual thinking & research) for you. You did not soul search at
all.

Tom Sims, who IIRC is not only a moderator but also the creator and
owner of this group, is certainly entitled to make reasonable

requests

about posting behaviors. I'm sure his is a thankless job, and I

think

he has managed to do it very well. I remember how things were on
VPHeaven, so I appreciate the value of a moderated forum, and I

don't

think that the small amount of moderation which takes place here

has

been either unreasonable or detrimental in the least bit to the
discussion of any and all VP topics. Thank you, Tom.

Now, whether or not we agree with Tom's request to crazydon, at

least he

made it via private email, which cd then chose to make public; I

wasn't

given the same polite consideration when a couple of folks (not Tom

or

anyone other _moderator_, by the way) took it upon themselves to

elect

themselves as spokespersons for the group to tell me publicly that

I was

posting too much. I found that rather embarrassing and certainly

would

have preferred if those folks would have been considerate enough to
contact me via email first, but they didn't try that. However,

rather

then react by telling them how to use a delete key and how

presumptuous

and arrogant I found those posts -- especially considering that

they are

not even moderators -- I did some soul searching instead, realized

they

were actually right, and I then publicly apologized to the entire

group

and immediately and dramatically reduced the number of posts I

make. I

even went back and started deleting my own posts from the archives

to

save Tom the trouble (a project not yet completed), but as far as

I'm

concerned, that is all water under the bridge; now I just want to

get on

with VP discussions, and to not be further embarrassed by the past
because there is really no need for that now, is there?

Now "vpbauer1", in response to Tom's request to 'cd' about his

posting

frequency, has brought my name up with the remark: "First Bill

Velek.

Now, Crazy Don. I don't get it." ... snip. I would have had no

problem

if it stopped there; vpbauer was merely making a point about people
being asked to post less, and did it without getting into ancient
history. But then Michael Boutot wrote:

> While that may be valid in this latest case it is not Bill Velek's
> views but his admitted haste in posting whether he has facts or

not &

> without really trying to see if his question is sensible.

snip

First, Mr. Boutot, was there really any need for that? The

discussion

is NOW about cd and perhaps the fairness of Tom's request. Second,
quite a few people here would disagree with your _opinion_ of my

posts,

but that's beside the point. The truth is that there are a number

of

members who could be quite _fairly_ criticized for an assortment of
'practices' that they employ here, yet I don't recall you making a

point

of pursuing it with any of them as you appear to be doing with me.

I

can't recall ever attacking or even criticizing you at any time,

and

I've tried to make it a practice of watching what I say about or to
others, liberally apologizing with sincerity whenever I have

suspected

that I might have offended anyone. I therefore don't know what

your

problem is besides possibly not knowing how to use a delete key or

how

to set up a filter to automatically delete posts from me. I don't
expect everyone to like me, and I don't really care. What I do

care

about is my name being unfairly brought up and publicly kicked

around

all over again after I thought I had done a pretty fair job of

modifying

my participation on this board. Now, do I need to adopt a fake

name and

come back here in order to start over again, or are you going to be

big

enough to let bygones be bygones ... or otherwise just ignore me?

Second, if you have a personal problem with me, I would think that

vast

majority of members here would probably prefer that you send any
personal attacks or criticisms via private email rather than as

public

posts. My preference is that you just ignore me and I'll ignore

you.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:

Can you manage that?

Bill Velek

Michael Boutot wrote:

snipped a bunch of whining and opinionated crap

PLONK!

Velek

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "crazydonconcepts"
<crazydonconcepts@e...> wrote:

2. Your demand I post in a style acceptable to you is absurd.
(snip)
U no like, go jump.

If either of you "jump", I doubt it'll be the GROUP MODERATOR!

(IOW, methinks the "cards" he has here are higher than yours?)

3. I repost the lengthy messages which come to me as, apparently,
do most.

In that case, you - as well as "most" - need to read the monthly-
posted rules and guidelines of this group. I believe it's #4 that
the reposting of Entire Messages is, clearly, a VIOLATION of.