vpFREE2 Forums

Ultimate X Question

#1

In games like Ultimate X you are buy the multiplier. Whether or not you walk away a winner will usually depend on if those multipliers showed up to benefit you at the right place and time.

Most of you also know that the strategy for this particular game is incredibly complex. You may choose to proceed at your own peril, but simply playing basic strategy for your game choice won't maximize return.

Yet during challenging economic times in general, people are always looking for "bargains". I recently thought of one, but I need your help in letting me know if it will work.

In Ultimate X you pay a 100% "upcharge" to buy the multiplier for the NEXT hand. Notice I didn't say the hand you are currently playing. Accordingly, when you are entirely finished playing and ready to walk away from Ultimate you DO NOT bet max coins. There is no logic in buying a multiplier for the next player.

Still, I do notice many players betting MAX right up until they leave. And that mistake leaves very valuable multipliers sitting there just waitng for us "bargain hunters".

So, I'm wondering if any of you knows how long those multipliers stay there. If you or I come by in 15 minutes or longer, can we examine all played game results on the main menu and perhaps gain a temporary advantage?

#2

Based on personally observed anecdotal evidence, I would say that there is a good chance the multipliers remain. I was playing my usual P'em for a considerable period of time (at least 1 hour on the particular machine) and a gentleman (charitably - more like a denizen of the underworld) stood by the Ultimate X machine next to me, and proceeded to cycle through every game/denomination to look for unused multipliers.

Assuming that he was not delusional, one could conclude that this was an activity that he had successfully done before, therefore he continued to search for the opportunity. It (and he) reminded me of the stoopers I used to see at racetracks looking for discarded winning tickets.

(Lo and behold, while Googling "stoopers" which is what I seemed to remember them being called, I found this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/sports/08otb.html )

The picture actually looks very similar to the person I mentioned above, so if you want to take advantage of the Ultimate X opportunity, you may have to adapt the natural camouflage. ; )

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In Ultimate X you pay a 100% "upcharge" to buy the multiplier for the NEXT hand. Notice I didn't say the hand you are currently playing. Accordingly, when you are entirely finished playing and ready to walk away from Ultimate you DO NOT bet max coins. There is no logic in buying a multiplier for the next player.

Still, I do notice many players betting MAX right up until they leave. And that mistake leaves very valuable multipliers sitting there just waitng for us "bargain hunters".

So, I'm wondering if any of you knows how long those multipliers stay there. If you or I come by in 15 minutes or longer, can we examine all played game results on the main menu and perhaps gain a temporary advantage?

._,___

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

Since I intend to play in two casinos with Ultimate X this weekend I will not only answer my own question but post the results here as well.

Even with "free' multipliers this ploy may not be that much of a bargain. The best paytables I have seen on Ultimate anywhere are 9/6 DDB and "Airport" Deuces (25-15-9-4-4). And those paytables were at 25c level or higher. So, scrolling through the 5c and 10c play results indeed might reveal some unused multipliers. But they would be associated with horrible paytables. Yet I suppose playing, for example, an otherwise unthinkable 6/5 Jacks game with a 2X or greater multiplier could indeed make some very short-term sense.

For a brief experiment it might prove interesting. It's basically "one game and out" wherever multipliers are present. Realistically you're talking about less than a 5 minute sacrifice tops per machine for all games.

And hey, maybe those "crumbs" do add up, as your surreptitious friend aimed to discover.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Guru Perf <guruperf@...> wrote:

Based on personally observed anecdotal evidence, I would say that there is a good chance the multipliers remain. I was playing my usual P'em for a considerable period of time (at least 1 hour on the particular machine) and a gentleman (charitably - more like a denizen >of the underworld) stood by the Ultimate X machine next to me, and >proceeded to cycle through every game/denomination to look for >unused multipliers.

#4

Both of these are "full pay" 99.9% and 99.4%

As long as you have 1 multiplier (e.g. one 2X on a 10-play), your EV is 103%+ (assuming 94% game x 110%), but it's only one hand. Each 2X on 1c = $0.05, each 2X on 25c = $1.25, etc...

Might call it "marketing material" for the casino.

Also, if a "ultimate scalper" plays 1 credit (instead of 5 credits), the unused credits go right to the casino's bottom line. :slight_smile:

There are many reasons why people leave multipliers. Ultimate X is a high-variance game. On 3-play quarters, you can easily swing +/- $2,000-4,000 in just half an hour. I showed a DDB player how to play airport deuces and he took a $125 slot slip to $2,000 in 15-30 min. Then proceeded to lose $800 quickly before I left.

1) Some people have a money target. I'm up +$800, now I'm only +$500, time to leave.

2) Regret. Try playing 5 coins on your last hand, and get a dealt full house (usually 12Xs on DDB). Ouch!

3) Running out of money. You can get dealt a bunch of 2-Pairs on DDB, which only pay half of your bet, but give 3X multipliers (Bet 30, win 15, now have a page of 3Xs with not enough money).

4) Big winners... I just won $34,000 (12X AWAK). Do I care about little multipliers?

5) Casual players who've been told to "max bet". They win $20 and leave. Oh, there's a page of 12Xs on the screen for the dealt full house. Many ultimate players have no idea that the multipliers are for the next hand (assuming that they are random like SuperTimesPay).

When I play 10-coins, I usually play until the multipliers are gone, but a bad streak on 3-play quarters ($7.50/hand) might cost me $20-60 before the multipliers run out. And on 10-play, it could take 10s of hands before a really miserable one hits with no paying hands (usually a flush or straight draw).

Some players go through all of their games and play 1 coin (or 5 coin) before leaving the machine, but I'd say that percentage is <5% of the regular players (I've only seen two people do it).

Mitchell

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Guru Perf <guruperf@> wrote:

Even with "free' multipliers this ploy may not be that much of a bargain. The best paytables I have seen on Ultimate anywhere are 9/6 DDB and "Airport" Deuces (25-15-9-4-4).

#5

Ha! Thanks for the link to the great article.

Among the local Las Vegas hustlers, Ultimate X is one of the "known" advantage plays, but not the most profitable one. There's a better game (call it game Y). One lady (who's been playing advantage slots for 14 years) said she used to make $4,000/month on game Y until it was tightened up a few months ago.

Ultimate X came out in Nov 2008. I started playing in July 2009, but I've talked to a guy who might be one of the first Ultimate X "hustlers". In the early days, he said it was easy to make $40/machine, but there are so many people checking Ultimate X machines for leftover bonuses that it's nowhere near the early days.

The 3 Ultimate X machines at Bellagio are like Grand Central for "scalpers". Most bonuses probably don't last more than 30 min there! :slight_smile: One guy said "Cherry Pie" got to be so crazy that people were checking every 5 min.

There's a scam I've seen a few times (called "creating" by the "hustlers") where people have a very gullible tourist play 15-45 games and leave bonuses on as many games as possible. "Creating" is more often done on other games, but I've seen three teams "create" on Ultimate X.

There's a new advantage game (Game Z) in Las Vegas that a lot of hustlers have been playing the past week. Bonus rounds are usually $60-$100, with ~10-20% in $200-800.

I'd say "Ultimate X" is probably #5-#10 among the top "advantage" games about Las Vegas hustlers. Used to be better a year ago, but now too well-known.

Mitchell

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Guru Perf <guruperf@...> wrote:

and a gentleman (charitably - more like a denizen of the underworld) stood by the Ultimate X machine next to me, and proceeded to cycle through every game/denomination to look for unused multipliers.

Assuming that he was not delusional, one could conclude that this was an activity that he had successfully done before, therefore he continued to search for the opportunity. It (and he) reminded me of the stoopers I used to see at racetracks looking for discarded winning tickets.

(Lo and behold, while Googling "stoopers" which is what I seemed to remember them being called, I found this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/sports/08otb.html )

#6

I was in a large SoCal casino last summer, and even there, the hustlers were camped out waiting for opportunities.

I don't even try in Vegas. I heard a story of a guy who was at Silverton literally 20 hours a day when Indiana Jones came out. I feel bad for the guy and his karma, that your life is reduced to hustling bonuses to stay off the street.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tsaimitch" <tsai@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Guru Perf <guruperf@> wrote:
>
> and a gentleman (charitably - more like a denizen of the underworld) stood by the Ultimate X machine next to me, and proceeded to cycle through every game/denomination to look for unused multipliers.
>
> Assuming that he was not delusional, one could conclude that this was an activity that he had successfully done before, therefore he continued to search for the opportunity. It (and he) reminded me of the stoopers I used to see at racetracks looking for discarded winning tickets.
>
> (Lo and behold, while Googling "stoopers" which is what I seemed to remember them being called, I found this:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/sports/08otb.html )

Ha! Thanks for the link to the great article.

Among the local Las Vegas hustlers, Ultimate X is one of the "known" advantage plays, but not the most profitable one. There's a better game (call it game Y). One lady (who's been playing advantage slots for 14 years) said she used to make $4,000/month on game Y until it was tightened up a few months ago.

Ultimate X came out in Nov 2008. I started playing in July 2009, but I've talked to a guy who might be one of the first Ultimate X "hustlers". In the early days, he said it was easy to make $40/machine, but there are so many people checking Ultimate X machines for leftover bonuses that it's nowhere near the early days.

The 3 Ultimate X machines at Bellagio are like Grand Central for "scalpers". Most bonuses probably don't last more than 30 min there! :slight_smile: One guy said "Cherry Pie" got to be so crazy that people were checking every 5 min.

There's a scam I've seen a few times (called "creating" by the "hustlers") where people have a very gullible tourist play 15-45 games and leave bonuses on as many games as possible. "Creating" is more often done on other games, but I've seen three teams "create" on Ultimate X.

There's a new advantage game (Game Z) in Las Vegas that a lot of hustlers have been playing the past week. Bonus rounds are usually $60-$100, with ~10-20% in $200-800.

I'd say "Ultimate X" is probably #5-#10 among the top "advantage" games about Las Vegas hustlers. Used to be better a year ago, but now too well-known.

Mitchell