vpFREE2 Forums

Ultimate X Deluxe VP

#1

Does anyone know anythng about this new, somewhat weird game? It is kind of
on the order of Multistrike or SuperTimesPay, with additional multipliers.

I was just at Caesars Palace and decided to play, since I wanted to get some
points in, and saw a 25 cent/ 50cent machine. (I like to try out new
machines for a little bit on occasion). I played Triple Play and hit a huge jackpot
for a quarter machine -- 20,000 coins or $5000, by hitting Aces with a
Kicker on DDB (2000 coins) x 10 point multiplier. In general the machine played
quite well, despite an apparently bad pay table.

Here is how it works. It is a multiline game, 3 or 5 lines, with various
games available. I played DDB with an apparently bad paytable of 8 for FH, 5 for
Flush, 4 Straight, 3 three of Kind, the rest the usual DDB schedule. If you
hit various winners on lines, on the next pull, you receive a multiplier.
FH gives 12x, Flush 10x, Straight 8x, 3 kind, 4x, 2 pair 3x, Jacks 2x.

So for example your 3 lines are
   Jacks or Better
   Nothing
   Full House

On the next pull you will get
   2x
   1x (normal)
   12x

If you then get
   nothing
   2 pair
   nothing

On the next pull you get
   1x
   3x
   1x

And so on. Because of the multipliers being fairly frequent, you can keep
in the game even if you aren't getting quads. Of course if you get a quad and
a multiplier, you are going to surge ahead.

The downside (there is always one) is you are paying twice as much for each
pull. So instead of betting 15 on a 3-line, you are betting 30.

It seemed to me that the multipliers were coming fast enough to overcome the
drawback of the extra 15 coins you played.

Of course, hitting a big multiplier can give you a great result (and even
W2Gs on a quarter game), such as 4x 800 coins if you hit 3s with a kicker for
example, or 2x a Royal or of course the ultimate of 12 x a Royal.

There may be some slight strategy changes needed because of the higher
multipliers for Flash and FH, for example.

I didn't check the paytables for JB, DB, or any other games offered.

Presumably this game might be available in other casinos with better paytab
les, since Caesars isn't known for good VP.

There could be a lot of volitility with a game like this, of course, so if
you find it in pennies or nickels, that might be better to try out than
quarters.

I have to assume I was very luck to hit for $5000. But it did seem like a
better game to me than Supertimes or Multistrike.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Does anyone know anythng about this new, somewhat weird game? It is kind of
on the order of Multistrike or SuperTimesPay, with additional multipliers.

it's complicated to determine the exact EV or an exact strategy - and
the strategy, once you determine it, will be complicated as well.

however, it's relatively easy to get an upper bound on the EV, and the
upper bounds i've come up with have all been under 99.2%, so i haven't
been inspired to put in further work.

Here is how it works. It is a multiline game, 3 or 5 lines, with various
games available. I played DDB with an apparently bad paytable of 8 for FH, 5 for
Flush, 4 Straight, 3 three of Kind, the rest the usual DDB schedule. If you
hit various winners on lines, on the next pull, you receive a multiplier.
FH gives 12x, Flush 10x, Straight 8x, 3 kind, 4x, 2 pair 3x, Jacks 2x.

this game returns under 97.7%.

There may be some slight strategy changes needed because of the higher
multipliers for Flash and FH, for example.

the strategy changes aren't slight - they're huge, and complicated,
and very important. you're giving up a full 1% on the first hand if
you play it like normal DDB, since you should be playing it as much
for the multipliers as for the pays. flushes are huge, straights are
bigger than normal, royals and quads are effectively half their usual
value.

correct first-hand strategy looks more like 10/7 DB on a week-long
bender. you hold lots of three-flushes, like in DB; but then you have
nonsense like holding four to the straight instead of three to the
royal from Q(KJT)x, or holding four to the flush instead of either the
high pair or royal draw from K(AKQx),

on subsequent hands, strategy depends on the multipliers. the higher
they are, the more you're playing for the current pay rather than
future multipliers, and the more it plays like 8/5 DDB. you
effectively need to know a whole family of strategies, like with the
multistrike games.

and like with the multistrike games, even if you find a good paytable,
you'll still get brutally punished if you try to play it like a normal
machine. on average, that is. in the long run. in the short run,
congrats on the $5k hit. :slight_smile:

cheers,

five

···

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 10:46 AM, <misscraps@aol.com> wrote:

#3

Check out Michael Shackleford's Wizard of Odds
website(wizardofodds.com). He recently posted a breakdown of the game.

Does anyone know anythng about this new, somewhat weird game? It is

kind of

on the order of Multistrike or SuperTimesPay, with additional

multipliers.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, misscraps@... wrote:

#4

I saw this in multiline format at Luxor.

Just realized that mulitline would be a bad bet as you could not use different strategies on different lines. You will get different multipliers on different lines as you win or don't win each line. So my guess is that you should NEVER play this in a multline format. Anyone want to agree?

Quads

···

--- On Mon, 2/23/09, moosenlucy <AdKdQdJd10d@gmail.com> wrote:

From: moosenlucy <AdKdQdJd10d@gmail.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Ultimate X Deluxe VP
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:26 PM

Check out Michael Shackleford' s Wizard of Odds
website(wizardofodd s.com). He recently posted a breakdown of the game.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, misscraps@.. . wrote:

Does anyone know anythng about this new, somewhat weird game? It is

kind of

on the order of Multistrike or SuperTimesPay, with additional

multipliers.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

quads4all wrote:

I saw this in multiline format at Luxor.

Just realized that mulitline would be a bad bet as you could not
use different strategies on different lines. You will get different
multipliers on different lines as you win or don't win each line.
So my guess is that you should NEVER play this in a multline
format. Anyone want to agree?

No. What you cite is the reason that mutliline strategy should be
based upon the average multiplier present.

Of course, this introduces a strategy variable that then has several
possible values, making it unlikely will someone play an optimal
strategy with 100% accuracy. (Still, it's a far less complex strategy
situation vs. something like Guaranteed Play.)

#6

Just thought that it should be mentioned that the reason multiline
versions offer higher returns is because you get some bigger
multipliers the more lines you play. Of course, because no one will be
playing with 100% accuracy, the increase in game return may or may not
compensate for the increase in errors due to the greater complexity in
strategy.

#7

it only exists in multiline.

you're right that, paytables and multipliers being equal, you'd expect
a lower percentage return playing more lines than fewer lines, as a
result of being able to play a less tailored strategy.

however, they slightly increase the multipliers as the number of lines
increases, which more than compensates for this effect. for example,
in non-wild games, normal quads in 3-play give you a 2x multiplier,
but in 5-play they give you a 3x multiplier; in 10-play they juice the
multipliers on the higher hands. see the wizardofodds page for
details.

cheers,

five

···

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 7:45 PM, <quads4all@yahoo.com> wrote:

Just realized that mulitline would be a bad bet as you could not use different strategies on different lines. You will get different multipliers on different lines as you win or don't win each line. So my guess is that you should NEVER play this in a multline format. Anyone want to agree?