On some of the Ultimate Play pay tables getting a flush triggers an 10X or 11X multiple on the next hand (depending on the game being played). Is a strategy deviation a good idea to increase one chances of getting a flush to achieve this bonus, if so when and for what hands? Thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I assume you are talking about Ultimate X. This game is far and away the
toughest VP game to play even close to correct as even 3 play has 81
different strategy tables. (360 for ten play.)
Yes you should definitely make changes. All three flushes are playable. One
hand card included in a three flush is played instead of just the high card.
High card + ten + another in the suit is played over the two RF. Two suited
high cards + a third suited card are better than two RF but at certain
multiplier combos may not be true. May other changes too. All DB and DDB
games hold two pair even when one of them are aces. Inside straights are
playable and often better than two high cards unsuited.
Deuces wild also have a ton of strategy changes.
I have not really studied this game enough. It is a ton of fun to play but
has insane volatility (variance) and nobody will ever get close to perfect
on it.
Howard W. Stern
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
pesach kremen
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 10:25 AM
To: vpfree
Subject: [vpFREE] Ultimate Play Poker
On some of the Ultimate Play pay tables getting a flush triggers an 10X or
11X multiple on the next hand (depending on the game being played). Is a
strategy deviation a good idea to increase one chances of getting a flush to
achieve this bonus, if so when and for what hands? Thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
yes, there are multiple strategy variants for all the Ultimate X games. Please search the archives over the last 2 years - key "ultimate X", and search the wizard of odds for details.
----- Original Message ----- From: "pesach kremen" <royalflush2222@yahoo.com>
To: "vpfree" <vpfree@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:24 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Ultimate Play Poker
On some of the Ultimate Play pay tables getting a flush triggers an 10X or 11X multiple on the next hand (depending on the game being played). Is a strategy deviation a good idea to increase one chances of getting a flush to achieve this bonus, if so when and for what hands? Thanks
Howard
Stern wrote: I assume
you are talking about Ultimate X. This game is far and away the
toughest VP game to play even close to correct as even 3 play has 81
different strategy tables. (360 for ten play.)
In general
Howard is correct --- but the number of different strategies is off. For Ten
Play, each of the lines can have a multiplier of 1 (meaning no multiplier at
all) to 12 (often a full house, although it's a straight flush in at least some
Deuces Wild Games). The sum of the multipliers can vary between 10 and 120 ---
which leaves a maximum of 111 different strategies. Sometimes one or more of
these numbers are impossible (such as when you have a 12 multiplier and a 10
multiplier but no 11 multiplier, then you can't get to 119.) Also some of the
multiplier totals are VERY far-fetched --- such as a total of 118 can only be
reached by getting 9 full houses and 1 flush. Your best chance to do this would
be to hold two flush cards --- say a suited KQ. It's about 100-to-1 on any hand
to get a flush from that position and about 900-to-1 to get a full house
starting with two unpaired cards. Getting 9 full houses and 1 flush out of 10
tries is, in round numbers, impossible.
For Triple
Play, the maximum number of strategies needed is 27 and for Five Play the
maximum numbers of strategies needed is 51. Most players use approximations and
use one strategy for multiplier sums between 10 and 27. A second strategy for
multiplier sums between 28 and 64. Etc. It's not perfect --- but it is a good
compromise between what's possible and what's humanly feasible.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was basing the number of possible combinations on what is shown at the
wizardofodds site.
Actually Shackleford just posted on this game and says at least 86 for 3
play, 183 for 5 play and 361 for 10 play.
The total actually varies slightly depending on the game. The multiplier sum
can be generated in more than one way.
Is the strategy always the same playing 3x, 2x, 1x vs 2x, 2x, 2x? If yes
then the number of strategies needed would be less!
Obviously some shortcuts are needed as no human will be able to analyze
every combination quick enough for practical use.
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
Bob Dancer
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:50 PM
To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Ultimate Play Poker
Howard
Stern wrote: I assume
you are talking about Ultimate X. This game is far and away the
toughest VP game to play even close to correct as even 3 play has 81
different strategy tables. (360 for ten play.)
In general
Howard is correct --- but the number of different strategies is off. For Ten
Play, each of the lines can have a multiplier of 1 (meaning no multiplier at
all) to 12 (often a full house, although it's a straight flush in at least
some Deuces Wild Games). The sum of the multipliers can vary between 10 and
120 --- which leaves a maximum of 111 different strategies. Sometimes one or
more of these numbers are impossible (such as when you have a 12 multiplier
and a 10 multiplier but no 11 multiplier, then you can't get to 119.) Also
some of the multiplier totals are VERY far-fetched --- such as a total of
118 can only be reached by getting 9 full houses and 1 flush. Your best
chance to do this would be to hold two flush cards --- say a suited KQ. It's
about 100-to-1 on any hand to get a flush from that position and about
900-to-1 to get a full house starting with two unpaired cards. Getting 9
full houses and 1 flush out of 10 tries is, in round numbers, impossible.
For Triple
Play, the maximum number of strategies needed is 27 and for Five Play the
maximum numbers of strategies needed is 51. Most players use approximations
and use one strategy for multiplier sums between 10 and 27. A second
strategy for multiplier sums between 28 and 64. Etc. It's not perfect ---
but it is a good compromise between what's possible and what's humanly
feasible.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
I thought about this while driving over to one of the casinos I monitor to
"wong" Ultimate X.
Bob Dancer is almost certainly right on what is needed for strategy analyses
of this game.
PS: Lost $13.75 on the wong attempt but hit a "minor" on a Quick Strike for
a net win on that machine of $66.05 and a total score of +$52.30.
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
pyiddy
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 8:44 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Ultimate Play Poker
I was basing the number of possible combinations on what is shown at the
wizardofodds site.
Actually Shackleford just posted on this game and says at least 86 for 3
play, 183 for 5 play and 361 for 10 play.
The total actually varies slightly depending on the game. The multiplier sum
can be generated in more than one way.
Is the strategy always the same playing 3x, 2x, 1x vs 2x, 2x, 2x? If yes
then the number of strategies needed would be less!
Obviously some shortcuts are needed as no human will be able to analyze
every combination quick enough for practical use.
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vpF…@…com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of
Bob Dancer
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:50 PM
To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpfree%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Ultimate Play Poker
Howard
Stern wrote: I assume
you are talking about Ultimate X. This game is far and away the
toughest VP game to play even close to correct as even 3 play has 81
different strategy tables. (360 for ten play.)
In general
Howard is correct --- but the number of different strategies is off. For Ten
Play, each of the lines can have a multiplier of 1 (meaning no multiplier at
all) to 12 (often a full house, although it's a straight flush in at least
some Deuces Wild Games). The sum of the multipliers can vary between 10 and
120 --- which leaves a maximum of 111 different strategies. Sometimes one or
more of these numbers are impossible (such as when you have a 12 multiplier
and a 10 multiplier but no 11 multiplier, then you can't get to 119.) Also
some of the multiplier totals are VERY far-fetched --- such as a total of
118 can only be reached by getting 9 full houses and 1 flush. Your best
chance to do this would be to hold two flush cards --- say a suited KQ. It's
about 100-to-1 on any hand to get a flush from that position and about
900-to-1 to get a full house starting with two unpaired cards. Getting 9
full houses and 1 flush out of 10 tries is, in round numbers, impossible.
For Triple
Play, the maximum number of strategies needed is 27 and for Five Play the
maximum numbers of strategies needed is 51. Most players use approximations
and use one strategy for multiplier sums between 10 and 27. A second
strategy for multiplier sums between 28 and 64. Etc. It's not perfect ---
but it is a good compromise between what's possible and what's humanly
feasible.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I thought about this while driving over to one of the casinos I monitor to
"wong" Ultimate X.
I'm afraid your going to have to stand in line for that job, as there exist an army of ULT-X wongers and scammers.
True but I am not in Nevada.
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
tomflush
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 3:38 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Ultimate Play Poker
I thought about this while driving over to one of the casinos I monitor to
"wong" Ultimate X.
I'm afraid your going to have to stand in line for that job, as there exist
an army of ULT-X wongers and scammers.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I had a guy try to scam me at the Hard Rock Hotel this year. He walked over to me as I was playing a ten play and said he had a just hit a monster jackpot on an Ultimate X machine and wanted me to win big to. So I walked over and wanted to see what the scam was. He had me put money in the machine and then started touching the hold buttons as I was playing. I ended up losing money as I played for five or so minutes. I'm sure he was going to tell me to cash out after I was dealt a full house or something else.He was a classic con man. He wore a hat and sunglasses while playing. I called security and they took a report. Looking back on it, I should have played and gotten a full house and then when he told me to cash out, drill him with a left hook.
James ThompsonFormer HRH Casino Monitor
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: pyiddy@att.net
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 22:03:14 -0600
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Ultimate Play Poker
True but I am not in Nevada.
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
tomflush
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Ultimate Play Poker
I thought about this while driving over to one of the casinos I monitor to
"wong" Ultimate X.
I'm afraid your going to have to stand in line for that job, as there exist
an army of ULT-X wongers and scammers.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What does "wong" mean?
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:
>I thought about this while driving over to one of the casinos I monitor to
> "wong" Ultimate X.I'm afraid your going to have to stand in line for that job, as there exist
an army of ULT-X wongers and scammers.
From Stanford Wong, an AP primarily recognized as a blackjack player. To "Wong in" is to watch and wait until the count goes positive and then jump in to the game and make big bets... eliminating any casino advantage by only making advantageous bets. Gamblers will use "wong" to describe many situations in which you are jumping into a game at an advantage and leaving when the advantage does.