In a message dated 3/23/03 8:08:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, nudge51@lvcm.com
writes:
I'm just curious as to why you are still supporting these bastards with your
play.
I somehow didn't think this was a political email list. I played there on a
full-pay DB machine. Should I leave the group?
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In a message dated 3/23/03 8:08:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
writes:
> I'm just curious as to why you are still supporting these bastards with
your
> play.
I somehow didn't think this was a political email list.
What possibly could have been in my one sentence question that would lead
you to believe that it was political?
I played there on a
full-pay DB machine.
That must have been at .25c or .50c since the 1$ and 2$ games were removed
last quarter, and apparently, no message of dissatisfaction was made to hurt
them enough financially to put them back. Now, fast forward to the beginning
of this quarter, Jan 20th to be exact. Approx 60 full pay deuces disappear.
Last year, they had two types of FP VP that were over 100%, and it looks
like they got away with tinkering with the higher denom DB game on the first
slashing. Now this year, thanks to the continued patronage by advantage
players such as yourself, looks like they may get away with a full bore
pillage of the second remaining good game. Is this the message that you
would like to send? Does it go something like "That's ok Suncoast, I really
didn't play on the bigger DB games anyway, so it's all right with me. I know
you need the money." Sans the deuces, would it be "That's ok Mikey, I never
really liked them wild card games anyway and I know that times are hard and
you guys really need that extra one %, but I still love you and I'll be back
next week."
Does that sound too far fetched to you? Ok, then try this one on. Let's go
to the next quarter in 2003, how about May, that's a good month. One of Mr.
Gaughn's bean counters comes running in yelling, "Hey Mikey, they like it.
We took out some of that high $ game that was hurtin' us and our profits
didn't flinch. Then we destroyed them deuces that were costin' us money and,
guess what, those nimrods are still knockin the doors down to get in here. I
say we get rid of the rest of them pesky DB's and see what happens, what do
you think?" You think that this can't happen? Let me just suggest that you
are the CEO of the company that this bean counter just came running to and
his profit report was accurate. What would you do. I know what my next move
would be. Bye, Bye DB. Of course, as Mr, Miller would say, this is only my
opinion, I could be wrong.
Should I leave the group?
Karen
At the risk of repeating myself, what possibly could have been in my one
sentence question that would lead you to believe that you should leave the
group? Damn, I guess there is somethin' to that pen mightier than the sword
thing after all.
Nudge
P.S. If any of you who know me see me at the Suncoast, it is for one of two
reasons. Since I allready picked up every last nickel of my cash back, I
will be cashing free money coupons from the flyer or eating their free food.
Yeah, I know, like I need that. Most guys spend lots of time sweatin' for
that BUFF look, me I'm goin' for BUFFET.
----- Original Message -----
From: <krallison416@aol.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Triple Pay Survey at Orleans
From: <krallison416@aol.com>
I would agree that NONE of US should play at Suncoast or Orleans.
That does not mean that you should leave the group, but perhaps it
implies that you should find another venue to play the DB so that
Suncoast and Orleans gets less, rather than more play.
Hard Rock offers 0.5% cash back and they have full pay 10/7 DB.
On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 18:32:05 EST, you wrote:
In a message dated 3/23/03 8:08:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, nudge51@lvcm.com
writes:I'm just curious as to why you are still supporting these bastards with your
play.I somehow didn't think this was a political email list. I played there on a
full-pay DB machine. Should I leave the group?Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.htmlYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I found it perplexing that one would only play on full pay machines yet
patronize venues which have drastically reduced their full pay inventories.
Don't you think this sends the wrong message to casino management? I would
think that continued play in such venues would ultimately result in the
demise of all full pay inventories. If a casino axes all the full pay
deuces and players continue to play the remaining full pay machines, there
will be no loss of revenue as a result of the downgrades. In fact, the
casinos will make more money since 10/7DB has a more complicated strategy
than FPDW and results in more errors for the player and more money for the
casino.
Rasti$Rulz
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven
----- Original Message -----
From: <krallison416@aol.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Triple Pay Survey at Orleans
In a message dated 3/23/03 8:08:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
writes:
> I'm just curious as to why you are still supporting these bastards with
your
> play.
I somehow didn't think this was a political email list. I played there on
a
full-pay DB machine. Should I leave the group?
Karen
I found it perplexing that one would only play on full pay machines yet
patronize venues which have drastically reduced their full pay
inventories.
Don't you think this sends the wrong message to casino
management?
I think the idea of abandoning a casino because they modify
their inventory is not practical. If a casino remains a strong
play, then why not continue to patronize it. Of course, you
can simultaniously bad mouth it to all your friends and take
your out of town friends elsewhere. These might have a negative
impact on the bottom line of the offending casino.
When I used to play the Suncoast, my EV was approximately $140 a
mnoth. I doubt they had more than 100 people who were doing the
same thing. Of course, some of them probably played there a lot
even though the ER drops after 10K coin in (from ceiling on
mailers). So, let's say the SC lost $25,000 a month to skilled
players.
BTW, I am only talking FPDW in quarters. The $1 and especially
$2 DB was a much stronger opportunity with double points and
those games probably got most of their action from pros. I think
the removal of $2 DB was inevitable and logical. Even the dollar
DB might have been too good to leave in, depending upon the
volume of unskilled play seen on those machines.
Of course, half these players probably piss off a large chunck
of change in the sports book, at the craps table, playing bingo,
etc. I would not be surprised at all if the casino won back most
or all of that loss from this action. Many skilled players are
lured into bad games where the house ER is well over 100%. Even
if these players do wind up with a net win after their 'leaks',
we should consider the business from spouses, friends and relatives
that comes in the door ONLY because the FPDW drew the skilled
players. We all know the concept of a loss leader. Perhaps the
coast properties need to be reminded. It seems almost certain
that the additional action from unskilled players would easily
cover the rest of the money and probably quite a bit more.
I do think that it is also a good idea to make sure that we inform
the public of the downgrading. Ideally, the masses will learn
that these properties have removed their best machines. They
won't know what that means, but they will know it is bad. One
unskilled player who decides he'd rather donate to the Rampart
will cost the casino as much as 5-10 skilled players will extract.
In particular, we must hope to convince players to avoid the NSUD
games currently offered. If a high percentage of the unskilled
FPDW players just keep playing, we are hosed. The NSUD game
is going to provide more than 1% better return for the house,
since not only is the ER about 1% lower, the semi skilled
players will make more large errors on it, such as breaking 2
pair and keeping a pair over a 4 flush.
I have seen some evidence that the public is not at all eager
to play bad games that replace good ones. I visit ACW
frequently. They have recently downgraded their FPDW nickel
games and their 10/7 DB quarter progressive. Both of those
banks of machines used to be very busy at all times. This is
no longer true. Both banks get very light play now. I do
not think either of these games was getting heavy skilled
play. They probably made a decent profit and certainly drew
crowds. Now they have a higher ER, but the volume is weak.
I would be surprised to hear that the new machines are making
more money.
I belive it is an excellent idea to direct all your friends
and visiting relatives elsewhere. Many of these players are
not skilled. If you have some free rooms available, go ahead
and use them, but encourage your guests to go somewhere else
to gamble. In fact, I would make it a condition of the free
room. The only way we can hope to hurt their bottom line
is to erode the part of the customer base they want, the
uninformed.
QZ
Quad Zilla wrote:
I think the idea of abandoning a casino because they modify
their inventory is not practical. If a casino remains a strong
play, then why not continue to patronize it.
QZ -
If you modify that statement to read "If a casino remains a STRONGER
play", then I'm in league with you. But for the most part the players
in question here continue to go to Suncoast, etc. largely out of habit.
When excellent properties such as Palms and the Fiestas are available
I think continuing to patronize a casino (or casino group) that's
become player unfriendly simply isn't sensible.
By the way, you bring up a good point about NSUD play. I don't think
it's been lost on Coast management that as the FPDW playing regulars
migrate to NSUD, damn few are likely to modify their strategy -- a
fact that Coast is certain to rely upon in expecting their hold to
increase even more strongly.
- Harry
Well said QZ.
Can we all please try to stay away from these joints. A strike has little
effect if half the people show up to work.
We must also remember that it's not just the hold that a casino is looking
at but also the coin-in.
If they loose 100 regular players pushing thru 25k-50k a week, it's a loss
of 10 to 20 MILLON dollars a month in action.
That might help to make them nervous.
stu in sf
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quad Zilla"
Of course, half these players probably piss off a large chunck
of change in the sports book, at the craps table, playing bingo,
etc. I would not be surprised at all if the casino won back most
or all of that loss from this action. Many skilled players are
lured into bad games where the house ER is well over 100%. Even
if these players do wind up with a net win after their 'leaks',
we should consider the business from spouses, friends and relatives
that comes in the door ONLY because the FPDW drew the skilled
players. We all know the concept of a loss leader. Perhaps the
coast properties need to be reminded. It seems almost certain
that the additional action from unskilled players would easily
cover the rest of the money and probably quite a bit more.
snip