vpFREE2 Forums

Triple ? DDB or DB

#1

Is there a triple version of DDB ? If not , was there one in the past ?

No so long ago in Tunica, I thought (at a quick glimpse) I saw a
Triple DDB game. On my return trip a few months later, I looked again
but those machines were no longer there. I could have been mistaken .
It may have been Triple DB instead .

Where might one find Triple DB literature and play strategy? It's not
included on WinPoker or Frugal?

Is TDB a common game found in Vegas? If so, at what denominations and
what type of return?

Thanks!

Nita

#2

Is there a triple version of DDB ? If not , was there one in the

past ?

No so long ago in Tunica, I thought (at a quick glimpse) I saw a
Triple DDB game. On my return trip a few months later, I looked

again

but those machines were no longer there. I could have been

mistaken .

It may have been Triple DB instead .

Where might one find Triple DB literature and play strategy? It's

not

included on WinPoker or Frugal?

Is TDB a common game found in Vegas? If so, at what denominations

and

what type of return?

Thanks!

Nita

I'll let others tell you where to find TDB machines. I tend to
stick to DDB, so I can't give you any hints.

If you want to practice up a bit, though, go to the FreeSlots.com
site: www.freeslots.com/poker.htm will bring you up on the VP
section, with JoB displayed, so click on the "More games" button and
look for the 9/7 TDB choice.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ab4nita" <ab4nita@...> wrote:

#3

Hi Nita,

not that this will be of much help to you, but the Suncoast (and
presumably other Coast casinos and probably Station casinos as well)
has atleast one bank of Triple Double Bonus multi-denom machines
that are full pay 9/7. and they also have TDB in some 3 play/ 5 play
machines as well but with a much lower payscale.

i play a lot of Super Aces Bonus and DDB which are similar to TDB
but keep in mind that TDB does have a pretty high variance
associated with it that i am sure some of that math gurus can point
out better than i can.

but the the thought of getting 4000 for 4 Aces with a kicker is a
pretty exciting concept!

Paul

Is there a triple version of DDB ? If not , was there one in the

past ?

No so long ago in Tunica, I thought (at a quick glimpse) I saw a
Triple DDB game. On my return trip a few months later, I looked

again

but those machines were no longer there. I could have been

mistaken .

It may have been Triple DB instead .

Where might one find Triple DB literature and play strategy? It's

not

included on WinPoker or Frugal?

Is TDB a common game found in Vegas? If so, at what denominations

and

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ab4nita" <ab4nita@...> wrote:

what type of return?

Thanks!

Nita

#4

Well, the EV of TDB (9/7) is essentially the same as that of JoB (9/6)
but the variance is 5 times as much.

As a basic rule of thumb, I'd say that TDB probably requires more than
twice as much bankroll as JoB, and that entering "the long term"
probably takes a bit longer.

I personally prefer games that allow to get a high coin-in with a low
variance, so for my style of play TDB is inappropriate.

JBQ

···

On 3/11/06, Paul <panther1944@yahoo.com> wrote:

TDB does have a pretty high variance
associated with it that i am sure some of that math gurus can point
out better than i can.

#5

Hi Nita,

not that this will be of much help to you, but the Suncoast (and
presumably other Coast casinos and probably Station casinos as

well)

has atleast one bank of Triple Double Bonus multi-denom machines
that are full pay 9/7. and they also have TDB in some 3 play/ 5

play

machines as well but with a much lower payscale.

i play a lot of Super Aces Bonus and DDB which are similar to TDB
but keep in mind that TDB does have a pretty high variance
associated with it that i am sure some of that math gurus can

point

out better than i can.

but the the thought of getting 4000 for 4 Aces with a kicker is a
pretty exciting concept!

Paul

Paul, I've been thinking about trying Super Aces, but, from what
I've seen of it on the FreeSlots site (and what little I remember
from trying it at the Orleans a couple of years ago), there seem to
be longer 'dry' stretches.

Now, my sample may be too small, but, if you've been playing a lot
for a while, you're in a position to compare Super Aces with DDB,
which is my regular game. Can you tell me how you see the two?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <panther1944@...> wrote:

#6

Paul,
  
  Thanks so much for the info . Good luck to you !
  
  Nita
  
Paul <panther1944@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Nita,
  
  not that this will be of much help to you, but the Suncoast (and
  presumably other Coast casinos and probably Station casinos as well)
  has atleast one bank of Triple Double Bonus multi-denom machines
  that are full pay 9/7. and they also have TDB in some 3 play/ 5 play
  machines as well but with a much lower payscale.
  
  i play a lot of Super Aces Bonus and DDB which are similar to TDB
  but keep in mind that TDB does have a pretty high variance
  associated with it that i am sure some of that math gurus can point
  out better than i can.
  
  but the the thought of getting 4000 for 4 Aces with a kicker is a
  pretty exciting concept!
  
  Paul
  
  >
  > Is there a triple version of DDB ? If not , was there one in the
  past ?
  >
  > No so long ago in Tunica, I thought (at a quick glimpse) I saw a
  > Triple DDB game. On my return trip a few months later, I looked
  again
  > but those machines were no longer there. I could have been
  mistaken .
  > It may have been Triple DB instead .
  >
  > Where might one find Triple DB literature and play strategy? It's
  not
  > included on WinPoker or Frugal?
  >
  > Is TDB a common game found in Vegas? If so, at what denominations
  and
  > what type of return?
  >
  > Thanks!
  >
  > Nita
  >
  
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···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ab4nita" <ab4nita@...> wrote:
        
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#7

Hi Roger,

the main "problem" with Super Aces is the diminished return on the
Full House. and although i could be wrong, i believe that is what
causes Super Aces to have even more variance than DDB. that said,
getting 2000 for 4 Aces sans any kicker can be very nice indeed!
especially when it is dealt on a multi-hand game!

basically what i do when i play a multi-hand, multi-game machine is to
start off with Super Aces for the first 50% of my money initial coin-
in and see how it goes. if the machine seems to be in a good cycle i
will continue. if not, then i will switch back over to DDB and see how
that goes.

of course there is nothing purely scientific with this approach. but i
enjoying playing this way nonetheless.

Paul

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Wilner" <roger_wilner@...> wrote:

Paul, I've been thinking about trying Super Aces, but, from what
I've seen of it on the FreeSlots site (and what little I remember
from trying it at the Orleans a couple of years ago), there seem to
be longer 'dry' stretches.

Now, my sample may be too small, but, if you've been playing a lot
for a while, you're in a position to compare Super Aces with DDB,
which is my regular game. Can you tell me how you see the two?

#8

Hi again,
  
  I know DDB strategy pretty well. Have never played TDB at all. Do you know the major strategy differences between DDB and TDB? Not one of my vp strategy books include TDB strategy.
  
  Thanks,
  
  Nita
  
Paul <panther1944@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Nita,
  
  not that this will be of much help to you, but the Suncoast (and
  presumably other Coast casinos and probably Station casinos as well)
  has atleast one bank of Triple Double Bonus multi-denom machines
  that are full pay 9/7. and they also have TDB in some 3 play/ 5 play
  machines as well but with a much lower payscale.
  
  i play a lot of Super Aces Bonus and DDB which are similar to TDB
  but keep in mind that TDB does have a pretty high variance
  associated with it that i am sure some of that math gurus can point
  out better than i can.
  
  but the the thought of getting 4000 for 4 Aces with a kicker is a
  pretty exciting concept!
  
  Paul
  
  >
  > Is there a triple version of DDB ? If not , was there one in the
  past ?
  >
  > No so long ago in Tunica, I thought (at a quick glimpse) I saw a
  > Triple DDB game. On my return trip a few months later, I looked
  again
  > but those machines were no longer there. I could have been
  mistaken .
  > It may have been Triple DB instead .
  >
  > Where might one find Triple DB literature and play strategy? It's
  not
  > included on WinPoker or Frugal?
  >
  > Is TDB a common game found in Vegas? If so, at what denominations
  and
  > what type of return?
  >
  > Thanks!
  >
  > Nita
  >
  
    vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
  
          SPONSORED LINKS
                                                        Online gambling Outdoor recreation Recreation software Gambling

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ab4nita" <ab4nita@...> wrote:
        
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#9

<<Where might one find Triple DB literature and play strategy? It's not
included on WinPoker or Frugal?>>

Triple Double Bonus is one of the pre-loaded games on the Frugal VP software. It has the 9/7 version (EV 99.58), which can be easily modified if you find another version. Why you might not have found it in FVP is that it is listed under "Kicker Games." TDB is really a bad name for it since it is more a Double Double Game, with kickers, than a Double Bonus game.

I think someone has said that sometimes it might be called Triple Double Double, but I have only seen it called TDB and only in multi-line games. Is it available in single-line, does anyone know, and/or is it sometimes called Triple Double Double?

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

#10

Thank you ! That's great. I have something that I wasn't even aware I have. I'm sorry . I had not checked under "Kicker Games" Just assumed that was DDB ONLY and never looked any futher in that category since I already know regular DDB strategy.
  
  Yes, Triple Double Double is what I thought I saw on the machine in Tunica until I was told by someone that there was no such game. So, I thought I was mistaken and maybe it was TDB I saw instead. However, the machine that I thought was a Triple DDB was a single line but it's no longer there now.
  
  Nita
  
Jean Scott <QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz> wrote: <<Where might one find Triple DB literature and play strategy? It's not
  included on WinPoker or Frugal?>>
  
  Triple Double Bonus is one of the pre-loaded games on the Frugal VP
  software. It has the 9/7 version (EV 99.58), which can be easily modified
  if you find another version. Why you might not have found it in FVP is that
  it is listed under "Kicker Games." TDB is really a bad name for it since it
  is more a Double Double Game, with kickers, than a Double Bonus game.
  
  I think someone has said that sometimes it might be called Triple Double
  Double, but I have only seen it called TDB and only in multi-line games. Is
  it available in single-line, does anyone know, and/or is it sometimes called
  Triple Double Double?

···

________________________________________
  Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
    Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
     for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
     of your questions!
  
    vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
  
          SPONSORED LINKS
                                                        Online gambling Outdoor recreation Recreation software Gambling
        
---------------------------------
    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
  
    Visit your group "vpFREE" on the web.
     
    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
     
    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
  
---------------------------------
  
---------------------------------
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Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
    
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#11

Jean-Baptiste Queru wrote:

As a basic rule of thumb, I'd say that TDB probably requires more than
twice as much bankroll as JoB, and that entering "the long term"
probably takes a bit longer.

Whether defined at the $'s that you'd enter the casinos with to ensure
comparable probability of a given amount of coin-in or as a "long
term" bankroll (under a positive ER scenario), that is the greatest
understatement I've seen from you.

- Harry

#12

Roger Wilner wrote:

Paul, I've been thinking about trying Super Aces, but, from what
I've seen of it on the FreeSlots site (and what little I remember
from trying it at the Orleans a couple of years ago), there seem to
be longer 'dry' stretches.

Now, my sample may be too small, but, if you've been playing a lot
for a while, you're in a position to compare Super Aces with DDB,
which is my regular game. Can you tell me how you see the two?

I'm going to put in a plug for Frugal VP software here -- under the
option to let the computer play through a large number of hands, the
"session" results can be view graphically. In a glance you can assess
relative volatility of any game.

- H.

#13

Well, I was too busy to use an actual RoR calculator (where "busy"
actually means "lazy" if you read between the lines).

Cindy Liu's calculator indicates that the long-term bankroll for TDB
for a CB of 0.6% is approximately 5 times as large as that of JoB in
the same conditions. As the CB gets higher, the difference in variance
becomes more important than the difference in EV and the ratio
therefore tilts even more in favor of JoB.

Short-term, I expect the game to be a crazy roller-coaster. With 14.3%
of the return in the "top hands" (RF and quad w/kicker) and those
hands occuring with a cycle of approximately 3800, during a single day
I'd be ready to not hit any of those hands, and therefore I'd want to
be bankrolled enough to lose 15% or more of my coin-in.

As for how long it takes to get into the "long term", for my rule of
thumb of "long term" (30 cycles of the top jackpot), I was wrong. The
800-coin top jackpot occurs a lot more often in TDB than in JoB, with
a cycle of less than 11000. My rule of thumb of "long term" is an
empirical value for which I feel confident that modeling the results
of VP with a normal distribution is accurate enough for practical
purposes.

JBQ (who prefers 100-play JoB).

···

On 3/12/06, Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:

Whether defined at the $'s that you'd enter the casinos with to ensure
comparable probability of a given amount of coin-in or as a "long
term" bankroll (under a positive ER scenario), that is the greatest
understatement I've seen from you.

#14

Jean-Baptiste Queru wrote:

Cindy Liu's calculator indicates that the long-term bankroll for TDB
for a CB of 0.6% is approximately 5 times as large as that of JoB in
the same conditions.

That sits much better with me than your original "more than twice the
bankroll" statement -- way too much wiggle room on that one; sort of
like saying they should have topped off those NO levees at least a tad
before the storm. :wink:

I'd be ready to not hit any of those hands, and therefore I'd want
to be bankrolled enough to lose 15% or more of my coin-in.

I don't have hard numbers, but my guess is that would be an equivalent
ROR stake to playing JB with funds to cover 5% of your targeted
coin-in. TDB is wicked and a short-term loss of 20% is almost a
no-brainer. You're looking at an expected loss of 27% in any hour
without something better than a FH.

As for how long it takes to get into the "long term", for my rule of
thumb of "long term" (30 cycles of the top jackpot), I was wrong.
The 800-coin top jackpot occurs a lot more often in TDB than in JoB,
with a cycle of less than 11000. My rule of thumb of "long term" is
an empirical value for which I feel confident that modeling the
results of VP with a normal distribution is accurate enough for
practical purposes.

When you consider the additional concentration of return in the other
quads as well, this well could be an isolated case where "in the (vp)
long run we're all dead" might be an apropos adage.

Sorry for harping on this one, but this is a game that no disciplined
vp player with realistic goals can take seriously, except under the
most extraordinary of circumstances.

- H.