vpFREE2 Forums

Treasure Chest Poker

#1

One poster says that through 97 quads on quarters he averaged 185
coins. He says he got the $ll99 payout on the 98th quad--and did not
include it in the average. But I have a problem with this persons
statistics-- if you get paid either 140 or 180 there is no way you can
average 185.

  You can also get 250 and 500 on the dollar machines. I do not recall if both are available on the quarter machines.

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#2

  You can also get 250 and 500 on the dollar machines. I do not

recall if both are available on the quarter machines.

I took his post to mean that his chests paid either $140 or $180.
After reading your post it appears I was wrong. I would now guess he
meant anywhere from $140 to $180.

Without any long term statistics all we can do is play a guessing
game.

Is it likely that this game has a positive ER? NO. That's the best
guess.

But what if it did? And what if someone has it figured out? Would
they post their stats up here? I don't think so.

What was the person(s) who designed the game thinking? I'll take a
wild guess. If I were designing the game here's what I could do:

Take an 8/5 Jacks game, add the treasure chest feature. Make the
quads pay either 140,145,150,155,160,165,170,175,180,250,500, or
5000. Excluding the 5000 hit, make the weighted average of the quads
160. Put the chances of the $5000 hit at 1 in 400. This would
bring the overall weighted average of quads up to 172. Analyzing 8/5
Jacks with a $172 quad on Win shows a return of 99.52%. I could
tinker with the weighted average of quads to make the game pay more
or less.

I have different motivations in vidio poker so this wouldn't be my
cup of tea. But for a recreational/vacationing player working CB and
Comp what the heck. You might get lucky.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "E. Matsuoka" <ematsuok@...> wrote:

#3

Take an 8/5 Jacks game, add the treasure chest
feature. Make the
quads pay either
140,145,150,155,160,165,170,175,180,250,500, or
5000. Excluding the 5000 hit, make the weighted
average of the quads
160. Put the chances of the $5000 hit at 1 in 400.
This would
bring the overall weighted average of quads up to
172. Analyzing 8/5
Jacks with a $172 quad on Win shows a return of
99.52%. I could
tinker with the weighted average of quads to make
the game pay more
or less.

Mickey....
           I know you were just taking a stab at this
but the quads pay as follows.140-180-250-500-5000.
In my short term analysis I did in a former email I
believe I had about 200 quads to work with and they
came out to an average of 168. That DID NOT include
hitting the 5000 payoff twice as I figured that would
skew the results too badly.
Though I know 200 isn�t alot to work with...it can
give someone a general idea.

                   SteveBork

···

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#4

This game seems to be very similar to Bally's Gold Mine Bonus Poker (not a surprise since IGT regularly rips off Bally's best game ideas with seeming impunity and then makes the paybacks on them worse). The best pay schedule for Gold Mine Bonus gives a payback of about 99.4% so this is probably worse than that.

>
>
>
> You can also get 250 and 500 on the dollar machines. I do not
recall if both are available on the quarter machines.
>
>

I took his post to mean that his chests paid either $140 or $180.
After reading your post it appears I was wrong. I would now guess he
meant anywhere from $140 to $180.

Without any long term statistics all we can do is play a guessing
game.

Is it likely that this game has a positive ER? NO. That's the best
guess.

But what if it did? And what if someone has it figured out? Would
they post their stats up here? I don't think so.

What was the person(s) who designed the game thinking? I'll take a
wild guess. If I were designing the game here's what I could do:

Take an 8/5 Jacks game, add the treasure chest feature. Make the
quads pay either 140,145,150,155,160,165,170,175,180,250,500, or
5000. Excluding the 5000 hit, make the weighted average of the quads
160. Put the chances of the $5000 hit at 1 in 400. This would
bring the overall weighted average of quads up to 172. Analyzing 8/5
Jacks with a $172 quad on Win shows a return of 99.52%. I could
tinker with the weighted average of quads to make the game pay more
or less.

I have different motivations in vidio poker so this wouldn't be my
cup of tea. But for a recreational/vacationing player working CB and
Comp what the heck. You might get lucky.

···

mickeycrimm <mickeycrimm@yahoo.com> wrote: --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "E. Matsuoka" <ematsuok@...> wrote:

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#5

> Take an 8/5 Jacks game, add the treasure chest
> feature. Make the
> quads pay either
> 140,145,150,155,160,165,170,175,180,250,500, or
> 5000. Excluding the 5000 hit, make the weighted
> average of the quads
> 160. Put the chances of the $5000 hit at 1 in 400.
> This would
> bring the overall weighted average of quads up to
> 172. Analyzing 8/5
> Jacks with a $172 quad on Win shows a return of
> 99.52%. I could
> tinker with the weighted average of quads to make
> the game pay more
> or less

Mickey....
           I know you were just taking a stab at this
but the quads pay as follows.140-180-250-500-5000.
In my short term analysis I did in a former email I
believe I had about 200 quads to work with and they
came out to an average of 168. That DID NOT include
hitting the 5000 payoff twice as I figured that would
skew the results too badly.
Though I know 200 isn´t alot to work with...it can
give someone a general idea.

                   SteveBork

I could use the 140-180-250-500-5000 and still make it come to an
overall weighted average of 172 per quad. I was just giving an
example of what could be done.

But you have the best evidence so far that the game has a pretty
strong payback. If the 168 held through another couple hundred quads
I would be pretty confident since that would be only a .66% drop
between $5,000 hits--assuming you hit your royal average. But I
would continue to monitor the quad average looking for any kind of
regression.

At that small a drop you would have to hit the $5,000 just once about
every 360 quads to break even. That's about 152,000 games. If you
hit it twice in 200 quads, or even twice in 300 quads, you kick
their butts.

Well, you assumed the risk. You put in the work. It appears you
beat them pretty good. Hopefully, you caught a couple royals too.
Good Job. I'm glad you beat them.

#6

->

  You can also get 250 and 500 on the dollar machines. I do not

recall if both are available on the quarter machines.

I have gotten 250 on the quarter Treasure Chest machines at the
Fremont. I was sitting next to a woman playing one several years ago
and three times within an hour she hit the 500 coin chest on quarters.

Lin

#7

Let me add a little to this discussion. I have
probably hit in the neighbourhood of 500 - 600 quads
on treasure chest machines over the past few years,
all quarters, and these are my impressions/memories.

1. I have not hit a $1199 quad on the these machines
yet, and I am sure that they are much rarer than Royal
flushes.

2. I don't believe I have hit much more than 10 - 15
quads in either the 250 or 500 coin amounts.

3. I would guess that i hit a 180 coin quad in about 1
out of 5 quads at the best, all the rest are the 140
coin variety.

Regards
A.P.

···

--- steve bork <stevebork@yahoo.com> wrote:

Mickey....
           I know you were just taking a stab at
this
but the quads pay as follows.140-180-250-500-5000.
In my short term analysis I did in a former email I
believe I had about 200 quads to work with and they
came out to an average of 168. That DID NOT include
hitting the 5000 payoff twice as I figured that
would
skew the results too badly.
Though I know 200 isn�t alot to work with...it can
give someone a general idea.

                   SteveBork

#8

This is the other side of the coin. Not good news for those that
like to play the game.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:

Let me add a little to this discussion. I have
probably hit in the neighbourhood of 500 - 600 quads
on treasure chest machines over the past few years,
all quarters, and these are my impressions/memories.

1. I have not hit a $1199 quad on the these machines
yet, and I am sure that they are much rarer than Royal
flushes.

2. I don't believe I have hit much more than 10 - 15
quads in either the 250 or 500 coin amounts.

3. I would guess that i hit a 180 coin quad in about 1
out of 5 quads at the best, all the rest are the 140
coin variety.

#9

Perhaps we need to contact IGT and find out whether they have one or multiple programs that they can offer the casino for the 4K hands. This data is available for slots as in Strictly slots the returns that can be purchased by the casinos for a particular game is listed. FWIW I was playing the nickel treasure chest at MSS a few years ago and got a 5000 coin 4K. If there is someone here who really likes this game and is willing to play until he or she hits 10,000 quads and records the results for all perhaps we can get an idea of the real payback, but it is entirely possible that different chips exist for this game. Perhaps if we treat the return as 150 coins we would have a decent average and can estimate the machine's payback.

···

mickeycrimm <mickeycrimm@yahoo.com> wrote: --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:

Let me add a little to this discussion. I have
probably hit in the neighbourhood of 500 - 600 quads
on treasure chest machines over the past few years,
all quarters, and these are my impressions/memories.

1. I have not hit a $1199 quad on the these machines
yet, and I am sure that they are much rarer than Royal
flushes.

2. I don't believe I have hit much more than 10 - 15
quads in either the 250 or 500 coin amounts.

3. I would guess that i hit a 180 coin quad in about 1
out of 5 quads at the best, all the rest are the 140
coin variety.

This is the other side of the coin. Not good news for those that
like to play the game.

---------------------------------
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#10

Thanks for all the responses.

To respond to some of the former messages in the thread:

1. Yes, I meant that I had hit previous chests containing only 140
and 180 coins. I didn't keep track of how many...wish I had. I
only track net win/loss. I did also play after I hit the jackpot
and did hit a 250. If I had to guess, I probably hit about 15 quads
while I was there. 2 180s, 1 250, 1 5000 and the rest 140s.

2. On $, it is 140-180-250-500-5000. On quarters, I think it is
the same, except that the top jackpot pays $1199 to avoid the W2G.
I know this because one of my parents hit the quarter jackpot the
last time they were in town. They play this machine everytime they
go up to Vegas, so they could conceivably have a few hundred quads
in the last decade they've been heading up to Vegas.

3. I agree this machine probably does not have a positive ER
(otherwise it would have been gone a long time ago). Frankly, I'd
be happy if it was close to 8/5 BP return.

4. I don't get to MSS/Cal that often, so my numbers would probably
be useless. However, I do plan to track it going forward. They
used to have bartops before, but those are long gone. The uprights
give me a backache...but I digress.

5. I knew a guy from Hawaii that I chatted with who claimed he had
hit over 400 quads without hitting the jackpot. So that would back
up Albert's claim as well.

6. Thanks everyone for the well wishes. May all your draws be
royals. :slight_smile:

Regards,
Ryan

#11

I played about 6,000 hands of the quarter game last June. My quad stats
  aren't handy at the moment, but as best I can recall mine were mainly 140, with
  a couple of 180s and a 250.
   
  What hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that the quarter game features
  a progressive jackpot. I didn't get a chance to clock the meter, but as best I can recall
  the royal was around $1,800 when it was hit.
   
  Brian

  Let me add a little to this discussion. I have
probably hit in the neighbourhood of 500 - 600 quads
on treasure chest machines over the past few years,
all quarters, and these are my impressions/memories.

1. I have not hit a $1199 quad on the these machines
yet, and I am sure that they are much rarer than Royal
flushes.

2. I don't believe I have hit much more than 10 - 15
quads in either the 250 or 500 coin amounts.

3. I would guess that i hit a 180 coin quad in about 1
out of 5 quads at the best, all the rest are the 140
coin variety.

Regards
A.P.
--- steve bork wrote:

Mickey....
I know you were just taking a stab at
this
but the quads pay as follows.140-180-250-500-5000.
In my short term analysis I did in a former email I
believe I had about 200 quads to work with and they
came out to an average of 168. That DID NOT include
hitting the 5000 payoff twice as I figured that
would
skew the results too badly.
Though I know 200 isn´t alot to work with...it can
give someone a general idea.

SteveBork

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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Albert Pearson <ehpee@rogers.com> wrote:

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#12

  What hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that the quarter game

features

  a progressive jackpot. I didn't get a chance to clock the meter,

but as best I can recall

  the royal was around $1,800 when it was hit.
   
  Brian

Was this at the Cal? I don't remember seeing a progressive on the 5
quarter machines that were back-to-back to the 4 dollar machines at
MSS. I only glanced at it so I could be wrong.

Regards,
Ryan

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BLavoie <blavoie46@...> wrote:

#13

No - it was at Main St. Station - a bank of 10 or 12 uprights in front of the small cage.
   
  Brian

What hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that the quarter game

features

a progressive jackpot. I didn't get a chance to clock the meter,

but as best I can recall

the royal was around $1,800 when it was hit.

Brian

Was this at the Cal? I don't remember seeing a progressive on the 5
quarter machines that were back-to-back to the 4 dollar machines at
MSS. I only glanced at it so I could be wrong.

Regards,
Ryan

···

sjsharkey <ryasuda@yahoo.com> wrote:
  --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BLavoie wrote:

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#14

SOME but not all of the quarter treasure chest
machines are hooked to a progressive.So be careful
which ones you play.

                       SteveB

···

No - it was at Main St. Station - a bank of 10 or 12
uprights in front of the small cage.
   
  Brian

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#15

I'm gonna try once more to post here. Most times it doesn't work.

Anyone else have this prblm?? If I make my address Yahoo, I can
receive but not post. Sometimes I can post if I make my home address
the one listed on Yahoo, but then receive all VPfree msg's on that
address & wifey-poo doesn't like our in basket being bombarded. Soon
I'm going to remedy that by going to separate email addresses.

Treasure chests...was staying at 4Q's about 3 years ago & went over to
Fremont. Saw & played 25C treasure chests. Hit 2 royals within 12
hours. PLayed them alot back then, necer got $1199 4 of a kind. Since
then almost always stay at Fremont on my 4 to 6 trips a year, cuz I
love the VP tournaments. Got second ($2000) last time out.

New idea??? I'm thinking of posting a relatively short report on this
year's HI LITES, Lo lites. I don't think it's been done in the 3 - 4
years I've been lurking here. Think it mite be fun to share the year's
experiences if others join in. 1st tho, gotta see if this post makes
it as I have changed my address for now.>

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, steve bork <stevebork@...> wrote:

________________________________________________________________________
____________

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http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

#16

Individual emails from vpFREE are sent to the member's
primary email address (the email address that you have
group messages sent to), and a member's posts must be

vpFae
vpFREE DataBase Coordinator
vpFae@Cox.net
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/

···

On 28 Dec 2007 at 10:58, chev59el wrote:

I'm gonna try once more to post here. Most times it doesn't work.
Anyone else have this prblm?? If I make my address Yahoo, I can
receive but not post. Sometimes I can post if I make my home address
the one listed on Yahoo, but then receive all VPfree msg's on that
address & wifey-poo doesn't like our in basket being bombarded. Soon
I'm going to remedy that by going to separate email addresses.

sent from their primary email address or they will bounce.

#17

I played about 6,000 hands of the quarter game last June. My quad

stats

  aren't handy at the moment, but as best I can recall mine were

mainly 140, with

  a couple of 180s and a 250.
   
  What hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that the quarter game

features

  a progressive jackpot. I didn't get a chance to clock the meter,

but as best I can recall

  the royal was around $1,800 when it was hit.
   
  Brian

Just seeing an $1800 royal on a bank is evidence that the game may have
a strong meter. Someone has to time it to be sure, but meters that run
at .25% or .333% just never get that high. I mean, it's extremely
rare. Even with a .5% meter the royal would have to miss about 130,000
games to get that high. There may be a 1% meter on that bank.

Winpoker Game Analysis shows 8/5 Jacks, 4000 coin royal, 140 quad, as a
98% game. So the base game has to be somewhere above 98%.

$1500 royal, with 140 quad puts the game at 99%.

$1500 royal with a 160 quad puts the game at 100%.

$1600 royal with a 155 quad puts the game at 100%.

$1700 royal with a 150 quad puts the game at 100%.

$1800 royal with a 145 quad puts the game at %100%.

$1900 is a no brainer play.

Plus, you have the meter movement while playing.

There's no way anyone is going to play enough to get a ballpark average
on the 1199 hit. So I think the best way to handle it is to ignore it
in analyzing the progressive game.

The 250 and 500 hits will also take one hell of alot of quads to get
any kind of picture of what the odds may be.

The ratio of 140 hits to 180 hits is the easiest to stat since they
occur the most. And it's the most telling stat.

With a 3 to 2 ratio you would know you have a quad average at 156+

2 to 1 is 153+

7 to 3 152+

3 to 1 150+

4 to 1 148+

The plus sign signifies the mystery of the 250-500 hits.

Another thing that can be done is lump the 250-500 hits in with the 180
hits and consider them all to be 180 hits for purposes of looking at
the ratio. That would be 140 hits versus hits of 180 or higher.

If you play for quarters and you are at Main Street you might want to
keep an eye on that progressive meter.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BLavoie <blavoie46@...> wrote: