vpFREE2 Forums

Travel Channel: Gambling With The Pros

#1

Here in Az. the above show was just on from 11-12. Several observations.

1. Most major casino games were discussed.

2. Each 'pro' either clearly sold something or was in the business, or I had to look them up on the internet to find that they work in one manner or another.

3. The craziest clip was about craps. It said some people may be 'dice influencers'. WTF?? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but once the dice are thrown and they hit the other end of the table with all those random cones, the word 'influence' is out of the picture.

4. The BJ segment was interesting but outdated. No 'team' will ever be able to do what the M.I.T. team did years ago, and individual players weren't really discussed. There was a lot of talk, but that's all it was.

5. Horse racing: The guy who talked here (I think his name was Meadow) seemed confused and unsure of what to say to the camera. Picking a winning animal that runs is no easy business.

6. The most comical presentation was that of sports bettor Fezzik. He came on saying he had to wear some silly disguise, but then proceeded to talk about how he does what he does, what he used to do in the corporate world, and why. All on CAMERA!

7. The most anticipated part was last, at least for me. Bob Dancer came on and talked vp. It was interesting that they introduced him as "A pro who has won MILLIONS at a certain type of slot game" before the commercial, but afterwards said he had won one million in 6 months. Strange, but I have W2G's that show I've won millions of dollars too since I've been playing in 1994. But I've lost a bit more than that. I also haven't worked a day since I turned 50 in 1994. Maybe they should have interviewed me!

8. The most believable of the bunch was a guy named John Robison, Slot Expert. He came right out and said "No one can make a living playing the slots". Thank God for an honest John.

9. Someone named Stanford Wong came on and input into several segments, and it said he was a professional gambler for 40 years! I looked him up, and he doesn't even LIVE in a gaming town. But he does sell a whole lot of stuff and has pay-to-use sites.

10. Lastly, when a floor manager was asked what he thought of professionals playing in his casino, he said something to the effect of "Bring them in and we'll let them play. As long as they think they have the advantage we love having them here. The more they think that the more they'll play". Amen. That's me.

···

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#2

Sports Betting pros are sometimes welcomed to see if the early line
solid but not if they bet too much. "Perfect pitch" (or similiar
names) crap rollers have been talked about for a long time.
Scoblete's books are filled with such stories. I know I am not 1 :frowning:
Stanford Wong is very well known & legit.

Here in Az. the above show was just on from 11-12. Several

observations.

1. Most major casino games were discussed.

2. Each 'pro' either clearly sold something or was in the business,

or I had to look them up on the internet to find that they work in
one manner or another.

3. The craziest clip was about craps. It said some people may

be 'dice influencers'. WTF?? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but
once the dice are thrown and they hit the other end of the table with
all those random cones, the word 'influence' is out of the picture.

4. The BJ segment was interesting but outdated. No 'team' will

ever be able to do what the M.I.T. team did years ago, and individual
players weren't really discussed. There was a lot of talk, but
that's all it was.

5. Horse racing: The guy who talked here (I think his name was

Meadow) seemed confused and unsure of what to say to the camera.
Picking a winning animal that runs is no easy business.

6. The most comical presentation was that of sports bettor Fezzik.

He came on saying he had to wear some silly disguise, but then
proceeded to talk about how he does what he does, what he used to do
in the corporate world, and why. All on CAMERA!

7. The most anticipated part was last, at least for me. Bob Dancer

came on and talked vp. It was interesting that they introduced him
as "A pro who has won MILLIONS at a certain type of slot game" before
the commercial, but afterwards said he had won one million in 6
months. Strange, but I have W2G's that show I've won millions of
dollars too since I've been playing in 1994. But I've lost a bit
more than that. I also haven't worked a day since I turned 50 in
1994. Maybe they should have interviewed me!

8. The most believable of the bunch was a guy named John Robison,

Slot Expert. He came right out and said "No one can make a living
playing the slots". Thank God for an honest John.

9. Someone named Stanford Wong came on and input into several

segments, and it said he was a professional gambler for 40 years! I
looked him up, and he doesn't even LIVE in a gaming town. But he
does sell a whole lot of stuff and has pay-to-use sites.

10. Lastly, when a floor manager was asked what he thought of

professionals playing in his casino, he said something to the effect
of "Bring them in and we'll let them play. As long as they think
they have the advantage we love having them here. The more they
think that the more they'll play". Amen. That's me.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glen Hardy <ghardy222@y...> wrote:

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#3

Thank you Michael. I believe your first sentence was incorporated
into the TV show's segment on sports betting. It just seemed odd
that this guy Fezzik needed to disguise himself, yet had no trouble
talking in the area of disclosure.

Is it true that these dice throwers actually can make the dice turn a
pattern of numbers, as they were claiming last evening? That doesn't
seem logical to me.

I didn't mention Scoblete but he was a guest. I considered what he
said as insignificant so I didn't write it down. I've also heard of
him before and he appeared to be a sensible, somewhat comical man.

Mr. Wong confuses me. I looked him up and he seems to have his hands
in nearly every casino game. After reviewing more about him, I've
come to the conclusion that he knows an awful lot about certain games
and the math behind them, he's made a living out of writing books and
being a salesman both of hard products as well as services and fee-
based sites surrounding these games, but being a professional gambler
who we're given the impression about that he wins for 40 years and
counting, I think not. In fact, does he even play other than
recreationally? Finally, what big named gambler goes on the tube and
wouldn't expect to be banned from playing if they're winning so much?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Boutot" <vegas_iwish@y...>
wrote:

···

Sports Betting pros are sometimes welcomed to see if the early line
solid but not if they bet too much. "Perfect pitch" (or similiar
names) crap rollers have been talked about for a long time.
Scoblete's books are filled with such stories. I know I am not 1 :frowning:
Stanford Wong is very well known & legit.

#4

Here in Az. the above show was just on from 11-12. Several

observations.

(snip)

"3. The craziest clip was about craps. It said some

people may be 'dice influencers'. WTF?? Someone correct me if I'm
wrong, but once the dice are thrown and they hit the other end of the
table with all those random cones, the word 'influence' is out of the
picture."

This is currently a hot topic right now in the advantage player
world. Remember that the house edge in craps is fairly thin. A
player only has to eliminate the randomness of the game to a small
degree to overcome the house edge. I'll add that there have been
quite a few reports recently of casino counter-measures against
careful dice throwers, which indicates that at least SOME casino
personnel in SOME casinos believe dice control is possible.

"9. Someone named Stanford Wong came on and

input into several segments, and it said he was a professional
gambler for 40 years! I looked him up, and he doesn't even LIVE in a
gaming town. But he does sell a whole lot of stuff and has pay-to-
use sites."

Stanford Wong is a well respected person in the gambling community.
I have met him several times, and he is certainly the real deal. I
don't think he plays much regular casino blackjack anymore (which is
probably why he doesn't worry too much about showing his face on TV),
but he was a serious full time player for many years.

"10. Lastly, when a floor manager was asked what

he thought of professionals playing in his casino, he said something
to the effect of 'Bring them in and we'll let them play. As long as
they think they have the advantage we love having them here. The
more they think that the more they'll play'. Amen. That's me."

This is just plain not true. Me, my wife, and almost everyone else I
have ever met who is a serious advantage player has been backed off,
tossed, or barred from at least one casino.

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glen Hardy <ghardy222@y...> wrote:

#5

I'll add that there have been quite a few reports recently of casino counter-measures against careful dice throwers, which indicates that at least SOME casino personnel in SOME casinos believe dice control is possible.

Interesting. I would think that even if a robotic device of some kind were to toss the dice against the back of a craps table exactly the same way each time, still no perceived pattern would result.
  
Stanford Wong is a well respected person in the gambling community. I have met him several times, and he is certainly the real deal. I don't think he plays much regular casino blackjack anymore (which is probably why he doesn't worry too much about showing his face on TV), but he was a serious full time player for many years.

He does seem to be well respected here. The only part I question is that you don't think he plays much any longer, which seems the obvious, and I am also led to believe no one but he KNOWS if he played much before either. He gained fame by analyzing games and writing(probably effectively?) about them. I'd need more than that to conclude he was the real deal.

This is just plain not true. Me, my wife, and almost everyone else I have ever met who is a serious advantage player has been backed off, tossed, or barred from at least one casino.

If you watch the show you'll see this being said by a floor supervisor. What doesn't seem to be true is that many serious advantage players have been backed off or tossed. I'm one of that group, and it hasn't happened to me yet. I also doubt whether even 1% of the vpfree membership could truthfully say they've been tossed, etc. These people seem to be so sensitive that such an occurence would trigger a moutain of protests here, and that just does not happen.

···

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#6

3. The craziest clip was about craps. It said some people may be

'dice influencers'. WTF?? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but once
the dice are thrown and they hit the other end of the table with all
those random cones, the word 'influence' is out of the picture.

http://wizardofodds.com/craps/crapsapx3.html

8. The most believable of the bunch was a guy named John Robison,

Slot Expert. He came right out and said "No one can make a living
playing the slots". Thank God for an honest John.

Piggybanking/Progressive slots.

9. Someone named Stanford Wong came on and input into several

segments, and it said he was a professional gambler for 40 years! I
looked him up, and he doesn't even LIVE in a gaming town. But he does
sell a whole lot of stuff and has pay-to-use sites.

http://members.cox.net/vpfree/HOF.htm

10. Lastly, when a floor manager was asked what he thought of

professionals playing in his casino, he said something to the effect
of "Bring them in and we'll let them play. As long as they think they
have the advantage we love having them here. The more they think that
the more they'll play". Amen. That's me.

Very funny.
Casinos have to keep up the image that it is possible to win, however,
if you do actually win, they will take action against you. For
example, if you figure out how to win at blackjack (not really that
difficult), most likely you will be barred from playing.
http://www.blackjack-school.com/indexa.shtml

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glen Hardy <ghardy222@y...> wrote:

#7

supervisor. What doesn't seem to be true is that many serious
advantage players have been backed off or tossed. I'm one of that
group, and it hasn't happened to me yet. I also doubt whether even 1%
of the vpfree membership could truthfully say they've been tossed,
etc. These people seem to be so sensitive that such an occurence
would trigger a moutain of protests here, and that just does not
happen.

If you haven't yet seen heat, you're probably not a threat to a
casino.
"advantage player" = winner
Casino's don't like winners (despite their advertising to the
contrary) because it means they're losing money and last I checked all
casinos are in business to make a profit. Casinos like losers who are
easily convinced they are really winners and there are many ways of
achieving that goal.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glen Hardy <ghardy222@y...> wrote:

If you watch the show you'll see this being said by a floor

#8

Iguana,

The Missouri Gaming Commission is not in the casino's pocket and they
seem to enjoy fining the casinos, so they can't toss or bar players
just for winning like in LV. What they can and will do is remove or
change the game like they just did for the $5 AA.

There is a current promotion that is a very positive play, and I was
wondering if you would like to use your math talents to calculate the
EV. There is a 10% rebate for net wins or losses. the max rebate is
$200. Now that AA is gone the best games are Pickem and 9/6 JOB. I
am thinking it is probably advantageous to play at the $5 level for
this promotion to maximize gain or loss over a short time frame.

Chris

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Glen Hardy <ghardy222@y...> wrote:
> If you watch the show you'll see this being said by a floor
supervisor. What doesn't seem to be true is that many serious
advantage players have been backed off or tossed. I'm one of that
group, and it hasn't happened to me yet. I also doubt whether even 1%
of the vpfree membership could truthfully say they've been tossed,
etc. These people seem to be so sensitive that such an occurence
would trigger a moutain of protests here, and that just does not
happen.

If you haven't yet seen heat, you're probably not a threat to a
casino.
"advantage player" = winner
Casino's don't like winners (despite their advertising to the
contrary) because it means they're losing money and last I checked all
casinos are in business to make a profit. Casinos like losers who are
easily convinced they are really winners and there are many ways of
achieving that goal.

#9

There is a 10% rebate for net wins or losses. the max rebate is $200.

Maximum rebate is $20, or 10% of the first $200 through. It sounded
like you thought you were going to get $200 in the mail.

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/state/11582827.htm

dipy911

#10

Chris is correct on this one, the max rebate is $200, not $20.
Yesterday I cashed a rebate voucher for $60 so know from personal
experience the $20 limit is incorrect.

Rick

>There is a 10% rebate for net wins or losses. the max rebate is

$200.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dipy911" <dipy911@y...> wrote:

Maximum rebate is $20, or 10% of the first $200 through. It sounded
like you thought you were going to get $200 in the mail.

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/state/11582827.htm

dipy911

#11

I disagree with your response. Casinos in fact LOVE winners who:

1. Are not SKILLED.
Slot machine winners are appreciated and comped by the casinos.
Casinos want lucky winners, not skilled winners. Since most casino
personelle still see VP as a slot machine ("non-skill" game), players
are unlikely to be backed off. Also, positive expectation VP requires
a Royal Flush (a very volatile and uncertain occurance, especially in
single-play games). A skilled player is unlikely to be barred
untill he has a Royal Flush.

2. Contribute to the casino's WINNINGS.
Casinos are heavily promoting live poker because skilled players ADD
to the casino's bankroll (via rake). Except in very rare circumstances
(an obviously skilled player discourages less skilled players from
playing), skilled players are not a "threat to the casino's bankroll".
In fact, many novice players may be attracted to the challenge of
competing against skilled players such as Chris "Jesus" Ferguson.

Replies appreciated.

If you haven't yet seen heat, you're probably not a threat to a
casino.
"advantage player" = winner
Casino's don't like winners (despite their advertising to the
contrary) because it means they're losing money and last I checked

all

···

casinos are in business to make a profit. Casinos like losers who are
easily convinced they are really winners and there are many ways of
achieving that goal.