vpFREE2 Forums

Toronto Woodbine Pickem Inventory

#1

Over the last 18 months Woodbine has been regularly removing
and/or downgrading their Pickem inventory.

In the process they've managed to run off several hundred of their
core players, many of whom I now see at Casino Rama.

They've surprised me with their latest move - the 12 short-pay
quarter uprights have been converted to fullpay $2 machines (to
replace the $2 slant-tops they pulled several months ago).

Woodbine is no longer the "Pickem capital of the world" - Through a
half-dozen maneuvers they've reduced the number of fullpay machines
from 115 to 55.

Here's the current fullpay inventory:

$.25 (9) bartops - Palio Bar. At any given time between 1 and 3
   of these are down. Bill feeders aren't maintained - you must
   hand-feed tokens. Management doesn't seem to be motivated to
   keep them operational. I pine for the LVH Sports Book Bar where
   their 25 or so bartops are ALWAYS up and running.

$.50 - None (all 12 slant-tops are short-pay).

$1.00 - (24) uprights (3 banks), all in the southeast corner.
     Caution - they snuck in a bank of shortpay beside these.
     Ignore the west end machines - all are shorted.

$2.00 - (12) uprights in the extreme southwest corner.

$5.00 - several of the games in the high limit room went MIA.
        The remaining (10) uprights, were moved outside of the room
        into the main traffic corridor.

Talk about how not to treat your high rollers.

These $5 players are putting through some $15,000/hour, and getting
jostled and elbowed by the crowds while doing so!

Their hold percentage might have gone up, but the coinin and yield
has certainly dropped tremendously. Now their core players are gone.

Will this $2 move bring them back?

Certainly a return of fullpay quarter and halves would.

Perhaps they should eliminate some of the 90-odd Game Kings they
stubbornly keep on the floor. I've been watching these for 3 years
now. No matter how packed the place is, I've never once counted more
that one-third of these machines busy.

···

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#2

Brian: As much as I like Casino Rama, the VP still isn't as good as the remaining full pay Pick-Em at Woodbine.
By the way they have added a bank of Pick a Pair machines at Rama, they are short pay of course, 10 coin quarter machines,
but they are a little better than the Pick-em machines that they have there (full pay on the straights, still short on the trips).

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Brian Lavoie
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Cc: vpmail2@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 1:24 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Toronto Woodbine Pickem Inventory

  Over the last 18 months Woodbine has been regularly removing
  and/or downgrading their Pickem inventory.

  In the process they've managed to run off several hundred of their
  core players, many of whom I now see at Casino Rama.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

That's marginally better, but I'd much prefer they shorted me on the
straight. 3Kind hits on average every 33 hands - they're stealing 5
credits from us 18 times an hour. If they shorted the straight
instead, we'd only be robbed 3 times an hour.

Brian

As much as I like Casino Rama, .......they have added a bank of >

Pick a Pair machines ..they are short pay of course, 10 coin >
quarter machines,

···

--- Albert Pearson <a-p@sympatico.ca> wrote:

but they are a little better than the Pick-em machines that they
have there (full pay on the straights, still short on the trips).

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#4

My responses follow...

In the process they've managed to run off several hundred of their
core players, many of whom I now see at Casino Rama.

Don't forget that the fact that Casino Rama still allows smoking may
have something to do with that. In case you're curious, by Mid-2006
Casino Rama will also be non-smoking.

They've surprised me with their latest move - the 12 short-pay
quarter uprights have been converted to fullpay $2 machines (to
replace the $2 slant-tops they pulled several months ago).

What's the point of having machines with "good holds" if nobody's
playing them. Perhaps the higher denomination full-pay machines will
encourage people to bet more. I don't know why casinos are so
obsessed with hold percentages, because the vast majority of
gamblers, nonetheless video poker players, don't know what they're
doing. Example: Casino Rama has full-pay Jacks or Better on Multi-
Game Triple/Five Play machines. On those machines, most people play
Double Double Bonus or Deuces Wild! How many people playing JOB
actually know the proper strategy?

Their hold percentage might have gone up, but the coinin and yield
has certainly dropped tremendously. Now their core players are gone.

Since people no longer hear about "amazing" video poker (that they
don't know proper strategy for), they don't want to go to Woodbine.

Perhaps they should eliminate some of the 90-odd Game Kings they
stubbornly keep on the floor. I've been watching these for 3 years
now. No matter how packed the place is, I've never once counted more
that one-third of these machines busy.

At the very least, Woodbine should offer better paytables to $5
players than they do to 25c players. The Game Kings at 25c and $5
both have 6/5 Jacks or Better on them!

Replies appreciated.