vpFREE2 Forums

To Don "Chandler" Barden

Was there a mass downgrade at the MS in the last ten days? Counting the
0.1% base cashback (but not bounceback or any other comps) there are
several dozen machines at the MS with one or more 100%+ plays. (In the case
of the Ditka $1 OEJW add an extra 0.25% average for the progressive.) Trump
has two machines with a 100.01% game including cashback. I have not been to
the "Harrahshoe" lately so I do not know if the 50 play $1 8-5 super aces
still exist. I believe that is all 100%+ games in the Chicago Area. Note:
Both IN and IL law does not allow 100%+ base games so offering progressives
with base paytables close to 100% is as good as it is going to get.

No question that the buffet is the absolute worst in the Chicago Area.
Also playing conditions could be alot better.

···

[Original Message]
From: testpro <testpro@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 9/14/2005 1:58:55 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: To Don "Chandler" Barden

If you want my business you will need to install 100%+ games, increase
same day CB and increase BB mailers. The cost of flying Vegas is
cheaper than the expected loss I would have playing your short pay VP
and paying tolls to do it.

The buffet could also use some "help".

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@c...> wrote:
>Heck, I might be Don Barden and not many here
> would know the difference;-)

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

FYI.... Howard. The smoke at MS is no worse than at Fiesta Rancho. AND I am totally amazed at all the places where I need to clean up the machines before I play them. Kind of reminds me of the riverboats. :slight_smile:

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Stern" <howard.w.stern@earthlink.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>; "VPFree_Chicago" <VPFree_Chicago@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 8:18 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Chicago] RE: [vpFREE] Re: To Don "Chandler" Barden

Was there a mass downgrade at the MS in the last ten days? Counting the
0.1% base cashback (but not bounceback or any other comps) there are
several dozen machines at the MS with one or more 100%+ plays. (In the case
of the Ditka $1 OEJW add an extra 0.25% average for the progressive.) Trump
has two machines with a 100.01% game including cashback. I have not been to
the "Harrahshoe" lately so I do not know if the 50 play $1 8-5 super aces
still exist. I believe that is all 100%+ games in the Chicago Area. Note:
Both IN and IL law does not allow 100%+ base games so offering progressives
with base paytables close to 100% is as good as it is going to get.

No question that the buffet is the absolute worst in the Chicago Area.
Also playing conditions could be alot better.

An excellent observation by testpro. I recently reached the same
conclusion. Between gas, tolls, driving time, reduced coupons, poor
playing conditions, and in general substandard comps it just isn't
worth it anymore. I'm just saving my money for Vegas or Reno trips. On
those trips I'm comped for nearly everything and due to the higher
quality of the experience I have a lot more fun. Plus since I'm
playing live poker more frquently I have access to poker tournaments
in Vegas as well.

Yes, Illinois and Indiana casinos are limited by law to 100% which is
why reasonable BB/CB is that much more important. Apparently MS
couldn't tolerate the success they were enjoying in the first six
months of '04 and have gone into "squeeze blood out of a rock" mode.
That makes the decision to opt for a Vegas trip a no-brainer.

Ednar - what are your favorite Vegas VP casinos so far? Santa Fe
Station is one of my favorites as it has good games (Joker Wild KB is
my favorite game), reasonable comps, and good playing conditions (not
crowded, good air and lighting). Their steakhouse is also one of the best.

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stern"
<howard.w.stern@e...> wrote:

Was there a mass downgrade at the MS in the last ten days? Counting the
0.1% base cashback (but not bounceback or any other comps) there are
several dozen machines at the MS with one or more 100%+ plays. (In

the case

of the Ditka $1 OEJW add an extra 0.25% average for the

progressive.) Trump

has two machines with a 100.01% game including cashback. I have not

been to

the "Harrahshoe" lately so I do not know if the 50 play $1 8-5 super

aces

still exist. I believe that is all 100%+ games in the Chicago Area.

Note:

Both IN and IL law does not allow 100%+ base games so offering

progressives

with base paytables close to 100% is as good as it is going to get.

No question that the buffet is the absolute worst in the Chicago Area.
Also playing conditions could be alot better.

> [Original Message]
> From: testpro <testpro@y...>
> To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: 9/14/2005 1:58:55 PM
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: To Don "Chandler" Barden
>
> If you want my business you will need to install 100%+ games,

increase

···

> same day CB and increase BB mailers. The cost of flying Vegas is
> cheaper than the expected loss I would have playing your short pay VP
> and paying tolls to do it.
>
> The buffet could also use some "help".
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@c...> wrote:
> >Heck, I might be Don Barden and not many here
> > would know the difference;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Frankly, LV is not necessarily the mecca it once was.

Let me give you some of my reactions. They will be somewhat scattered.....
And at times sound negative. I am just trying to be honest. We like it
here but not necessarily because of VP.

Being a local changes everything. Many of the offers and benefits (rooms,
promotions, etc. ) are not available. Or they have limited value.

The food is certainly better. I gained 30 pounds since May. I am now on a
diet and the restaurants are not such a big attraction.

There are definitely more places to play. There are some 100%+ games and
you can work the promotions. However you still have to be alert and LOOK
for the good stuff. Sometimes getting a seat at the good games is a
problem and I watch games being eliminated every week. Since most people
are "not discerning" and will play anything I think the casinos are
accomodating them and getting rid of more of the better games.... At first
I tried to educate people and show them paytables. I have given that up
because most don't get it. Or don't care.

What really surprises me is that there are many people (some who are even
in this group) who choose to play the garbage when there is better stuff
available (and when there is no difference in comp or bounceback value). I
realize the affect is probably minimal (or it is too late) but if I was a
casino owner I wouldn't worry about good pay-tables, I would just do a ton
of promotions and give away a bunch of "neat" but relatively low cost
gifts. Actually this is what many do. I already have a pile of stuff to
give to family members when they come.

Many times the best plays are NOT the games over 100%. For many reasons
sometimes there are good reasons to play less than 100% games (THis is
different than what I said in paragraph above). Bounceback is just as
important here as it was back in the Midwest. I will not go into details.

FPJW is my favorite game BUT sometimes I have to play something else if I
want to maximize my return. I like the ten play Jokers at Santa Fe and it
is right near my house. However, it takes long hours to get the amount of
coin in necessary to reach the higher level of card. In my opinion it is
NOT worth it.

There are more machines with more progressives BUT manytimes the base game
is NOT positive.... just like in Indiana. In fact, sometimes the base game
is better in Indiana.

I realize MS and TRump and Resorts are not perfect BUT you have some of
the best multiline games in the nation right there at MS. And easy comps.
And pretty decent bounce-back. Certainly these places are far from the
ultimate BUT the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side.
Soemtimes the best opportunities look just like the ones at MS. I would
die for those 100 play .05 NSUD or .01 BD or event he triple play .25
Super Aces..... I would NOT recommend moving to LV just to play VP. It is
marginally better here but not exceedingly so. It is obviously a better
vacation destination!!!!

I really hate smoke and some of the best games are in the smokiest places.
Even worse than in the riverboats!!!! And I find that often the best games
are on the machines with KENO. Remember when we had to fight the Keno
players at MS to get the machines with the good VP? Well it is just the
smae here. And I fidn most Keno players are chain smokers.

My job out here fell through and I am trying to figure out what I want to
do. In the meantime, I am making the best of the VP opportunites but it is
not what many people think. I will probably do some more formal writing on
this in the future.

I have about 7 casinos I frequent on a scheduled weekly basis. There are a
few others that are fillins when the promotion is right. And what happens
is that some of my best plays three months ago don't even exist today. For
example, we loved the 101% JOkers at Stardust. Even though low in
denomination we could play two of them and get decent coin-in. It was fun
adn we made money. Now they are gone. We don't get too attached to
anyplace. We take whatever we get or earn but there is little loyalty. (I
was more loyal to MS.)

I could go on but I think this is enough.....

Oh P.S. I play Texas Hold-em too. ON THE INTERNET. I have yet to find a
reason to play live.

···

*********************************************************

Ednar - what are your favorite Vegas VP casinos so far? Santa Fe
Station is one of my favorites as it has good games (Joker Wild KB is
my favorite game), reasonable comps, and good playing conditions (not
crowded, good air and lighting). Their steakhouse is also one of the
best.

On Mon, September 26, 2005 4:47 pm, vp_nbi wrote:

Ednar - what are your favorite Vegas VP casinos so far? Santa Fe
Station is one of my favorites as it has good games (Joker Wild KB is
my favorite game), reasonable comps, and good playing conditions (not
crowded, good air and lighting). Their steakhouse is also one of the
best.

Frankly, LV is not necessarily the mecca it once was.

Let me give you some of my reactions. They will be somewhat

scattered.....

And at times sound negative. I am just trying to be honest. We like it
here but not necessarily because of VP.

Being a local changes everything. Many of the offers and benefits

(rooms,

promotions, etc. ) are not available. Or they have limited value.

The food is certainly better. I gained 30 pounds since May. I am now

on a

diet and the restaurants are not such a big attraction.

There are definitely more places to play. There are some 100%+ games and
you can work the promotions. However you still have to be alert and LOOK
for the good stuff. Sometimes getting a seat at the good games is a
problem and I watch games being eliminated every week. Since most people
are "not discerning" and will play anything I think the casinos are
accomodating them and getting rid of more of the better games.... At

first

I tried to educate people and show them paytables. I have given that up
because most don't get it. Or don't care.

What really surprises me is that there are many people (some who are

even

in this group) who choose to play the garbage when there is better stuff
available (and when there is no difference in comp or bounceback

value). I

realize the affect is probably minimal (or it is too late) but if I

was a

casino owner I wouldn't worry about good pay-tables, I would just do

a ton

of promotions and give away a bunch of "neat" but relatively low cost
gifts. Actually this is what many do. I already have a pile of stuff to
give to family members when they come.

Many times the best plays are NOT the games over 100%. For many reasons
sometimes there are good reasons to play less than 100% games (THis is
different than what I said in paragraph above). Bounceback is just as
important here as it was back in the Midwest. I will not go into

details.

FPJW is my favorite game BUT sometimes I have to play something else

if I

want to maximize my return. I like the ten play Jokers at Santa Fe

and it

is right near my house. However, it takes long hours to get the

amount of

coin in necessary to reach the higher level of card. In my opinion it is
NOT worth it.

There are more machines with more progressives BUT manytimes the

base game

is NOT positive.... just like in Indiana. In fact, sometimes the

base game

is better in Indiana.

That's bound to happen due to sheer numbers, but you always have some
choices which are superior.

I realize MS and TRump and Resorts are not perfect BUT you have some of
the best multiline games in the nation right there at MS. And easy

comps.

And pretty decent bounce-back.

No, not anymore.

Certainly these places are far from the
ultimate BUT the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side.
Soemtimes the best opportunities look just like the ones at MS. I would
die for those 100 play .05 NSUD or .01 BD or event he triple play .25
Super Aces..... I would NOT recommend moving to LV just to play VP.

It is

marginally better here but not exceedingly so. It is obviously a better
vacation destination!!!!

Since you mention MS 100 play .05 I should point out a major benefit
of playing in Nevada - a more visible and dilligent gaming board. I've
played a lot of VP in Nevada and always enjoyed peace of mind. There
have been only a few times where I sensed something wasn't quite right
and because of the choices simply opted to play elsewhere, a solution
not available to midwestern players.

I really hate smoke and some of the best games are in the smokiest

places.

Even worse than in the riverboats!!!! And I find that often the best

games

are on the machines with KENO. Remember when we had to fight the Keno
players at MS to get the machines with the good VP? Well it is just the
smae here. And I fidn most Keno players are chain smokers.

I completely agree. Some of the major casinos are smoke pits, Palms in
particular. The smaller places like Terribles tend to be especially bad.

My job out here fell through and I am trying to figure out what I

want to

do. In the meantime, I am making the best of the VP opportunites but

it is

not what many people think. I will probably do some more formal

writing on

this in the future.

I have about 7 casinos I frequent on a scheduled weekly basis. There

are a

few others that are fillins when the promotion is right. And what

happens

is that some of my best plays three months ago don't even exist

today. For

example, we loved the 101% JOkers at Stardust. Even though low in
denomination we could play two of them and get decent coin-in. It

was fun

adn we made money. Now they are gone. We don't get too attached to
anyplace. We take whatever we get or earn but there is little

loyalty. (I

was more loyal to MS.)

I could go on but I think this is enough.....

Oh P.S. I play Texas Hold-em too. ON THE INTERNET. I have yet to find a
reason to play live.

Trust me, after a few more months you probably will. Having your
winning hand folded before your time to act is up is pretty difficult
to simulate in a B&M game! :slight_smile:
I played on PartyPoker, PokerStars, and UltimateBet and found all to
be rife with cheating.

Since I'm an IT consultant and Vegas has no work of this type (unless
I want to earn 1/10 of customary wages), Vegas will remain a vacation
destination for me. I may be forced to take a stab at being a poker
pro at some point since IT work seems to be drying up everywhere in
the US and my Hindi and Mandarin aren't very good. :slight_smile:
And I'm definitely a better player than many of the dufuses seen on cable.

Thanks for the report and best of luck to you and Ginny. Maybe I'll
see you at the Santa Fe on my next trip.

···

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "Ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

*********************************************************

> Ednar - what are your favorite Vegas VP casinos so far? Santa Fe
> Station is one of my favorites as it has good games (Joker Wild KB is
> my favorite game), reasonable comps, and good playing conditions (not
> crowded, good air and lighting). Their steakhouse is also one of the
> best.

On Mon, September 26, 2005 4:47 pm, vp_nbi wrote:
>
> Ednar - what are your favorite Vegas VP casinos so far? Santa Fe
> Station is one of my favorites as it has good games (Joker Wild KB is
> my favorite game), reasonable comps, and good playing conditions (not
> crowded, good air and lighting). Their steakhouse is also one of the
> best.
>

While it is pretty difficult for the wife and I to find enough increased EV
in LV to compensate us (from a bottom line perspective)for $500 to $600 in
transportation costs, I do agree that there can be exceptional value in
LV/Reno/Laughlin as a vacation destination. I think it is entirely a matter
in how you value your comps, but it can seem a far better deal than MS.
After getting knocked out of the tournament a couple of weeks ago and then
losing badly on the quarter Multis during 5X day, I cut myself off early,
returned to my hotel room and thought about what the same amount of action
would have gotten me in Vegas. I might have received an excellent room with
a spa tub, good pool facilities,a pleasant and clean gambling environment, a
meal or two in a restaurant that I might actually enjoy and maybe even a
gift or cash. At MS I got a very average motel room in the middle of
nowhere, though conveniently located next to a strip club, and a trip to the
drive through window at Wendy's because it was better than most dining
options in the casino. To be fair I did get the tournament comped which I
do value. Now I like the inventory at MS, but that is the difference
between playing at a boat in the rust belt and a resort destination. Note:
My spin would have been quite a bit different if I had won the tournament
and hit a couple of royals;-)

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:vpFREE_Chic…@…com]On Behalf Of vp_nbi
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 4:48 PM
To: vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE_Chicago] [vpFREE] Re: To Don "Chandler" Barden

An excellent observation by testpro. I recently reached the same
conclusion. Between gas, tolls, driving time, reduced coupons, poor
playing conditions, and in general substandard comps it just isn't
worth it anymore. I'm just saving my money for Vegas or Reno trips. On
those trips I'm comped for nearly everything and due to the higher
quality of the experience I have a lot more fun. Plus since I'm
playing live poker more frquently I have access to poker tournaments
in Vegas as well.

Yes, Illinois and Indiana casinos are limited by law to 100% which is
why reasonable BB/CB is that much more important. Apparently MS
couldn't tolerate the success they were enjoying in the first six
months of '04 and have gone into "squeeze blood out of a rock" mode.
That makes the decision to opt for a Vegas trip a no-brainer.

Frankly, LV is not necessarily the mecca it once was.

Let me give you some of my reactions. They will be somewhat

scattered.....

And at times sound negative. I am just trying to be honest. We like

it

here but not necessarily because of VP.

Being a local changes everything. Many of the offers and benefits

(rooms,

promotions, etc. ) are not available. Or they have limited value.

Thanks. The perspective of a recent LV immigrant is an interesting
one. I look forward to more if you ever have the stray thought or
observation.

The food is certainly better. I gained 30 pounds since May. I am

now on a

diet and the restaurants are not such a big attraction.

I bet this is common. I know it would affect me.

Many times the best plays are NOT the games over 100%. For many

reasons

sometimes there are good reasons to play less than 100% games (THis

is

different than what I said in paragraph above). Bounceback is just

as

important here as it was back in the Midwest. I will not go into

details.

Even for the tourist it is every bit as important to choose and play
the right system as it is to choose and play the right game.

adn we made money. Now they are gone. We don't get too attached to
anyplace. We take whatever we get or earn but there is little

loyalty. (I

was more loyal to MS.)

I'm not so sure I would call it loyalty so much as a lack of better,
or competitive, options. IMO, of course. What I appreciate about LV
is that there are choices to be made. A gamblers' options are
plentiful, and because the options are plentiful the opportunity is
better... Or at least good opportunities are more common.

Thanks again for the POV.

Chandler

···

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "Ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

YEs. Well I just figured you guys wouldn't appreciate it and laugh at you
for being stuck at MS. LOL. So I tried to paint it rosy for you. I mean
you can eat a lot of salad at the Buffington Harbor buffet for what it
costs to fly to LV. (Gag)

Seriously, there is much good out here. I do like it. But I am trying to
see things clearly and honestly rather than just think everything is
perfect and wonderful. And I will likely be more positive when I find a
"real" job.

Tue, September 27, 2005 12:47 pm, cmayhem2001 wrote:

···

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "Ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

Frankly, LV is not necessarily the mecca it once was.

Let me give you some of my reactions. They will be somewhat

scattered.....

And at times sound negative. I am just trying to be honest. We like

it

here but not necessarily because of VP.

Being a local changes everything. Many of the offers and benefits

(rooms,

promotions, etc. ) are not available. Or they have limited value.

Thanks. The perspective of a recent LV immigrant is an interesting
one. I look forward to more if you ever have the stray thought or
observation.

The food is certainly better. I gained 30 pounds since May. I am

now on a

diet and the restaurants are not such a big attraction.

I bet this is common. I know it would affect me.

Many times the best plays are NOT the games over 100%. For many

reasons

sometimes there are good reasons to play less than 100% games (THis

is

different than what I said in paragraph above). Bounceback is just

as

important here as it was back in the Midwest. I will not go into

details.

Even for the tourist it is every bit as important to choose and play
the right system as it is to choose and play the right game.

adn we made money. Now they are gone. We don't get too attached to
anyplace. We take whatever we get or earn but there is little

loyalty. (I

was more loyal to MS.)

I'm not so sure I would call it loyalty so much as a lack of better,
or competitive, options. IMO, of course. What I appreciate about LV is
that there are choices to be made. A gamblers' options are plentiful, and
because the options are plentiful the opportunity is better... Or at
least good opportunities are more common.

Thanks again for the POV.

Chandler

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links