vpFREE2 Forums

Tips

#1

I haven't caught up on all the digests yet but I couldn't help noticing all
the angst on this topic.

Some wanted to justify why they were being cheap, others why they were
being considerate (and maybe generous).

Last year I cut my tips in half on the advice of a pro. At that level it
was still more than she would have left. However, I didn't feel good about
it so now I'm back to what makes me feel good.

The rule of thumb that I use is do what makes me feel good except when I'm
with other people then it's important to consider how they do things &
adjust accordingly. When gambling, I'm normally alone so I'll tip what I
consider appropriate without regard to the recipient's job, life history, etc.
When dining, I'm often with other people, I'll tip according to what I think
is the group norm so as not to make anyone look cheap, especially in a
place where I know they come frequently.

In the end, regardless of what you may read here, do whatever makes YOU
feel good.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Nice comment...........rg

···

-----Original Message-----
From: TedChee@aol.com
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2011 3:11 pm
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Tips

I haven't caught up on all the digests yet but I couldn't help noticing all
the angst on this topic.

Some wanted to justify why they were being cheap, others why they were
being considerate (and maybe generous).

Last year I cut my tips in half on the advice of a pro. At that level it
was still more than she would have left. However, I didn't feel good about
it so now I'm back to what makes me feel good.

The rule of thumb that I use is do what makes me feel good except when I'm
with other people then it's important to consider how they do things &
adjust accordingly. When gambling, I'm normally alone so I'll tip what I
consider appropriate without regard to the recipient's job, life history, etc.
When dining, I'm often with other people, I'll tip according to what I think
is the group norm so as not to make anyone look cheap, especially in a
place where I know they come frequently.

In the end, regardless of what you may read here, do whatever makes YOU
feel good.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

Not tipping is not being cheap.

···

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:11 PM, <TedChee@aol.com> wrote:

I haven't caught up on all the digests yet but I couldn't help noticing all
the angst on this topic.

Some wanted to justify why they were being cheap, others why they were
being considerate (and maybe generous).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

Correct. And not tipping on handpays & to the cashier is smart, and shows that you as a person and gambler will not be intimidated into it when these people have no right, or right to expect, any of the money you have in any way.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Luke Fuller <kungalooosh@...> wrote:

Not tipping is not being cheap.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:11 PM, <TedChee@...> wrote:

> I haven't caught up on all the digests yet but I couldn't help noticing all
> the angst on this topic.
>
> Some wanted to justify why they were being cheap, others why they were
> being considerate (and maybe generous).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

Cheap is gramatically incorrect.
In this instance the correct modifier is "cheapskate."

Cheap is best used in the context of products or when stating vulgarities.

Or perhaps the spelling is wrong and it should be "cheep:"

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Luke Fuller <kungalooosh@...> wrote:

Not tipping is not being cheap.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:11 PM, <TedChee@...> wrote:

#6

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong.

···

From: kungalooosh@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 15:39:03 -0700
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Tips

Not tipping is not being cheap.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:11 PM, <TedChee@aol.com> wrote:

I haven't caught up on all the digests yet but I couldn't help noticing all
the angst on this topic.

Some wanted to justify why they were being cheap, others why they were
being considerate (and maybe generous).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

Tipping should be a REWARD for good service, not a given. If you don't get
good service, good service being subjective of course, why in the world
should you tip? Interesting how in this day and age if someone has a
different opinion than you, THEY are wrong. Maybe you are the one that is
wrong..or better yet live and let live? Geessshhh...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong.

···

From: kungalooosh@gmail.com <mailto:kungalooosh%40gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 15:39:03 -0700
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Tips

Not tipping is not being cheap.

,_._,___

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Is this serious? Or am I missing some sarcasm somewhere?

I'll use a poker analogy. Regular poker players pay A LOT in dealer tokes when you count it up at the end of the year. One might say that not "being intimidated" into tipping poker dealers is "smart". But let me tell you, in the real world, this is not practical. You may save several hundred dollars by not tipping, but it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, one way or the other. Trust me, this is a given. Thus, it would NOT be smart. We're talking about dealing with people, not machines and numbers, and not tipping is a big mistake.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:

Correct. And not tipping on handpays & to the cashier is smart, and shows that you as a person and gambler will not be intimidated into it when these people have no right, or right to expect, any of the money you have in any way.

#9

So you are saying by tipping the dealer you get better cards?

Is this serious? Or am I missing some sarcasm somewhere?

I'll use a poker analogy. Regular poker players pay A LOT in dealer tokes
when you count it up at the end of the year. One might say that not "being
intimidated" into tipping poker dealers is "smart". But let me tell you, in
the real world, this is not practical. You may save several hundred dollars
by not tipping, but it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, one way or the
other. Trust me, this is a given. Thus, it would NOT be smart. We're talking
about dealing with people, not machines and numbers, and not tipping is a
big mistake.

_,_._,___

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

Lisa wrote,
"So you are saying by tipping the dealer you get better cards?
Is this serious? Or am I missing some sarcasm somewhere?"

Of course in a legitimate game you would not "get better cards" by tipping the dealer. If you play regularly somewhere however (or even if you just plan on spending a day or several days playing in a poker room) - you may find that the dealers can help you:

a) get a seat at the table and game that you want
b) get the seat that you want at that table
c) get you food service promptly
d) help you with special rules that might exist at that club
e) make sure that you have as much time as you need to make your play
f) make things easier all around

Also, your nontipping reputation can spread to floormen and others who can make things easier or not as easy for you as well.
They work hard for their money, and it's a job based on tips.

Valerie

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6191 (20110608) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#11

I see Valerie..as long as it is as you state"they work hard for their
money". I am sensing here that people are feeling that tipping should be
done no matter what. If someone does as you state they will definitely get a
great tip from me...if they don't, they won't and shouldn't expect one just
because tipping is the norm..that is what I was trying to convey.

Lisa

They work hard for their money, and it's a job based on tips.

Valerie

_,_._,___

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#12

Bob Bartop wrote:

Is this serious? Or am I missing some sarcasm somewhere?

I'll use a poker analogy. Regular poker players pay A LOT in dealer tokes
when you count it up at the end of the year. One might say that not "being
intimidated" into tipping poker dealers is "smart". But let me tell you, in
the real world, this is not practical. You may save several hundred dollars
by not tipping, but it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, one way or the
other. Trust me, this is a given. Thus, it would NOT be smart. We're talking
about dealing with people, not machines and numbers, and not tipping is a
big mistake.

This is all very true, Bob. You just didn't explain to them why, at least for a winning player. A poker player who is consistently winning in a room, but not tipping will eventually get kicked out of the room. The excuse they use to get rid of you won't be that you are not tipping. They'll trump something else up on you. By not tipping you made enemies out of everyone who works in the room.

#13

Just to chime in on another view of tipping in general.
If it was up to me the people in the service industries would be paid a proper wage.
They'd be canned if the service was sub par.
I'd no longer have to tip.
The people that don't tip will pay more than they do now.
The people that do tip will pay less because as the price goes up then everyone pays their fair share.
The way it is now I pay more to make up for those that don't.

I'd even be happier if people were paid properly and tipping was only done for exceptional service, sort of like a Christmas bonus.
I hate the fact that tips (specifically in restaurants) are expected even for average service.

Just spouting off.

Regards

A.P.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

You could not be further away from understanding what I'm saying.

As a serious full-time poker player and a regular in cardrooms in Los Angeles, toking dealers is a big chunk of change, but it is a way of life. A way of the card room life. So, to make a living playing cards in this environment, one has to hone their skills to not only overcome the opponents, but also to beat the rake or collection, and beat the necessary tokes. Not an easy task! But it can be MUCH more profitable when people like you, than when they don't like you. And the best way to not be liked, is to not toke. You stand out like a sore thumb.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <viajo1964@...> wrote:

So you are saying by tipping the dealer you get better cards?

#15

  A poker player who is consistently winning in a room, but not tipping will eventually get kicked out of the room. The excuse they use to get rid of you won't be that you are not tipping. They'll trump something else up on you. By not tipping you made enemies out of everyone who works in the room.

True! True! True!
I wish I had read your post before I just made some other comments elsewhere, because you took the words right out of my head. You've been there, Mickey, you've walked the walk, been there done that, and I know you know EXACTLY what the real world is all about.

Also, as I stated elsewhere, when one is trying to beat poker games, it is better to be someone who people LIKE to gamble with. It is more profitable.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

#16

The no tipping system is present in plenty of places already.

And it certainly doesn't lead to especially good service.
The Japanese don't tip at restaurants.
And unless it's the owners or a special place, you won't
really get a smiling and helpful, friendly server.

You go to the Japanese equivalent of Denny's, an
'Izakaya' and prepare to get ignored.

Best order everything you want, because good 'ruck'
getting plated with much else after you order.

Very commonly, restaurants have a button on the
table so you can buzz the server, since they sure
aren't going to keep in touch with everyone by
walking around and refilling water.

Don't get me wrong, I love Japan... but tipping
leads to a far better service experience, and the
satisfaction of toking folks who are good to you
and stiffing ones that aren't.

Oh, gambling in Japan is quite common.
Mah Johng in the home for as high stakes
as you like is not something I've heard of
anyone going to jail for.

My ex-girlfriend's father, Elementary
School age during WW2 put himself
through Medical School with Mah Johng.

Just before he passed away, he told
his daughter of a briefcase still stuffed
with a ton of cash, enough to retire on,
that he'd won during Med School.

His wife and she always wondered
why he never asked them for money.
(Usually the woman handles all cash
and household in a marriage/family there.)

There are some semi-public Yakuza run
places that rake the pot of a Mah Johng
game or two as well, but the main public
gambling is on weird reel slots that Frank
would never play. No progressives and
no positive action.

Slots and Pachinko, actually.

There are even pachinko schools.

No VP or 'real' casinos, however, more
is the shame.

Lots of Love Hotels to make up for it,
many with slot machines right in the room.

If only I could get a Dueces Wild 100.76%
machine in my room....

···

--- On Wed, 6/8/11, Albert Pearson <ehpee@rogers.com> wrote:

From: Albert Pearson <ehpee@rogers.com>
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Tips
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2011, 9:59 PM

Just to chime in on another view of tipping in general.
If it was up to me the people in the service industries would be paid a proper wage.
They'd be canned if the service was sub par.
I'd no longer have to tip.
The people that don't tip will pay more than they do now.
The people that do tip will pay less because as the price goes up then everyone pays their fair share.
The way it is now I pay more to make up for those that don't.

I'd even be happier if people were paid properly and tipping was only done for exceptional service, sort of like a Christmas bonus.
I hate the fact that tips (specifically in restaurants) are expected even for average service.

Just spouting off.

Regards

A.P.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#17

I like your style.

ralph gary

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Bartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jun 9, 2011 2:17 am
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Tips

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <viajo1964@...> wrote:

So you are saying by tipping the dealer you get better cards?

You could not be further away from understanding what I'm saying.

As a serious full-time poker player and a regular in cardrooms in Los Angeles, toking dealers is a big chunk of change, but it is a way of life. A way of the card room life. So, to make a living playing cards in this environment, one has to hone their skills to not only overcome the opponents, but also to beat the rake or collection, and beat the necessary tokes. Not an easy task! But it can be MUCH more profitable when people like you, than when they don't like you. And the best way to not be liked, is to not toke. You stand out like a sore thumb.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#18

I think there would still be complaints, from the workers themselves. Those that do not pay income tax on their real tip total. And just as any job, as the slackers keep their job, others will follow thinking, I am not doing more than so and so and getting paid the same.

···

--- On Wed, 6/8/11, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:

If it was up to me the people in the service industries would be paid a proper wage.

#19

I read yesterday that the gambler that hit the Tropicana in AC for something like $5M left a $150,000 tip. It was divided among the dealers on duty that night. Good for both the player and the dealers but next time when he drops $5M I doubt he will get a refund.

As far as Japan goes, I have been lucky to take a couple of trips there in the past few years for both business and pleasure. Their no tip society is a pleasure. No worrying if you are suppose to tip someone and how much. And my service at the restaurants and bars was as good as or better than places in the US or Europe. Obviously tough to make a decisions based on a couple of quick trips but I would welcome a less tip-focused service industry.

The no tipping system is present in plenty of places already.

And it certainly doesn't lead to especially good service.
The Japanese don't tip at restaurants.
And unless it's the owners or a special place, you won't
really get a smiling and helpful, friendly server.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#20

It's a paradigm shift. If you look at any other non union workplace, the good workers get paid more than the bad workers. Eventually the slackers would be pushed out of the system and you would get good service. There are other countries that don't have tipping, they have service charges or just raise the price of the food. I can go to a burger joint and get great service even though tipping at these places is not the norm. Why not ?

I would find it hard to believe that if one were at an upscale restaurant in an area that did not have tipping that you would get bad service.

Regards

A.P.

···

--- On Thu, 6/9/11, pumsparky <dianalnagy@aol.com> wrote:

From: pumsparky <dianalnagy@aol.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Tips [Never Hit a 'Real' Royal]
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, June 9, 2011, 6:19 AM

I think there would still be complaints, from the workers themselves. Those that do not pay income tax on their real tip total. And just as any job, as the slackers keep their job, others will follow thinking, I am not doing more than so and so and getting paid the same.

--- On Wed, 6/8/11, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:

If it was up to me the people in the service industries would be paid a proper wage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]