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"kiwiboy4921" wrote ......

GOLDEN NUGGET
I played the Deuces progressive. I tested the progressive with $10
of action, 5 times, when no-one else was playing and found the following:

Progressive is 0.3%, 0.5%, 0.3%, 0.5%, 0.5%, 0.5% (Royal to 4-Kind)

I entered this in Frugal as (4660-1140-133-88-69-21-15-10-10-5) and
this turns out to be 100.08%. It is probably higher due to people not
holding correctly and the STFL was almost always higher than 69.

Where did you get the paytable to enter into Frugal?

John Zaroff
Delphi Electronics and Safety
313-996-3682 (w)
313-378-2987 ( Cell)
3133782987@vtext.com ( text page)

···

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John

I took the percentage of the progressive and multiplied it by the
frequency of the hand. So for the Royal it was:

4000 + (44297 * 0.003 * 1.25 * 4)

This was done to show what the average value of the royal (and other
stats) would be over time. I forgot to mention that the variance for
this game is 32.3.

"kiwiboy4921" wrote ......

>GOLDEN NUGGET
>I played the Deuces progressive. I tested the progressive with $10
>of action, 5 times, when no-one else was playing and found the

following:

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Zaroff, John" <John.G.Zaroff@d...> wrote:

>
>Progressive is 0.3%, 0.5%, 0.3%, 0.5%, 0.5%, 0.5% (Royal to 4-Kind)
>
>I entered this in Frugal as (4660-1140-133-88-69-21-15-10-10-5) and
>this turns out to be 100.08%. It is probably higher due to people not
>holding correctly and the STFL was almost always higher than 69.

Where did you get the paytable to enter into Frugal?

John Zaroff
Delphi Electronics and Safety
313-996-3682 (w)
313-378-2987 ( Cell)
3133782987@v... ( text page)

****************************************************************************************

Note: If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,

or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your
computer. Thank you.

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I'm still a bit confused about the percentages you gave, and how you
got them. Adding them up they total 2.6%. Are you saying the feed
rate of the game (with 6 progressives) is 2.6% of the amount
gambled? In your example, where you gambled $50, that means 2.6% of
$50 ($1.30) is added to the progressives. That's a very high feed
rate. Do the percentages have a different meaning?

John

I took the percentage of the progressive and multiplied it by the
frequency of the hand. So for the Royal it was:

4000 + (44297 * 0.003 * 1.25 * 4)

This was done to show what the average value of the royal (and other
stats) would be over time. I forgot to mention that the variance

for

this game is 32.3.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Zaroff, John" <John.G.Zaroff@d...>

wrote:

>
>
> "kiwiboy4921" wrote ......
>
> >GOLDEN NUGGET
> >I played the Deuces progressive. I tested the progressive with

$10

> >of action, 5 times, when no-one else was playing and found the
following:
> >
> >Progressive is 0.3%, 0.5%, 0.3%, 0.5%, 0.5%, 0.5% (Royal to 4-

Kind)

> >
> >I entered this in Frugal as (4660-1140-133-88-69-21-15-10-10-5)

and

> >this turns out to be 100.08%. It is probably higher due to

people not

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kiwiboy4921" <waynes@k...> wrote:

> >holding correctly and the STFL was almost always higher than 69.
>
> Where did you get the paytable to enter into Frugal?
>
>
> John Zaroff
> Delphi Electronics and Safety
> 313-996-3682 (w)
> 313-378-2987 ( Cell)
> 3133782987@v... ( text page)
>
>
>

**********************************************************************
******************

>
> Note: If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient,

or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to

the

intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly

prohibited.

If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your
computer. Thank you.
>
>

**********************************************************************
******************

>

That's exactly what the percentages mean. For every $10 gambled the
meters increase by 2.6% or 26 cents.

Of course the base game only pays back 96.77%. What makes the game
playable is the round up on a four of kind (1c rounds up to 25c).
If you assume that 4oK is always 21 coins the base game is 98%. Add

I'm still a bit confused about the percentages you gave, and how

you

got them. Adding them up they total 2.6%. Are you saying the

feed

rate of the game (with 6 progressives) is 2.6% of the amount
gambled? In your example, where you gambled $50, that means 2.6%

of

$50 ($1.30) is added to the progressives. That's a very high feed
rate. Do the percentages have a different meaning?

>
> John
>
> I took the percentage of the progressive and multiplied it by the
> frequency of the hand. So for the Royal it was:
>
> 4000 + (44297 * 0.003 * 1.25 * 4)
>
> This was done to show what the average value of the royal (and

other

> stats) would be over time. I forgot to mention that the

variance

for
> this game is 32.3.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Zaroff, John"

<John.G.Zaroff@d...>

wrote:
> >
> >
> > "kiwiboy4921" wrote ......
> >
> > >GOLDEN NUGGET
> > >I played the Deuces progressive. I tested the progressive

with

$10
> > >of action, 5 times, when no-one else was playing and found the
> following:
> > >
> > >Progressive is 0.3%, 0.5%, 0.3%, 0.5%, 0.5%, 0.5% (Royal to 4-
Kind)
> > >
> > >I entered this in Frugal as (4660-1140-133-88-69-21-15-10-10-

5)

and
> > >this turns out to be 100.08%. It is probably higher due to
people not
> > >holding correctly and the STFL was almost always higher than

69.

···

on the other 2.1% from the progressives (not including 4oK) and you get your return. --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "brumar_lv" <brumar_lv@y...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kiwiboy4921" <waynes@k...> wrote:
> >
> > Where did you get the paytable to enter into Frugal?
> >
> >
> > John Zaroff
> > Delphi Electronics and Safety
> > 313-996-3682 (w)
> > 313-378-2987 ( Cell)
> > 3133782987@v... ( text page)
> >
> >
> >
>

*********************************************************************
*

******************
> >
> > Note: If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient,
> or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message

to

the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any

dissemination,

> distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited.
> If you have received this communication in error, please notify

us

> immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your
> computer. Thank you.
> >
> >
>

*********************************************************************
*

******************
> >
>

First of all, the game is the 16/13 payscale coming in at 96.76%
Second of all, here is the true meter movement: RF .33% 4D .5%
WR .33% 5K .33% SF .5% 4K .5%. Now don't try to argue with me on
this. I've been playing that bank for years. The meters used to roll
in quarter increments so to get $5.25 for the 4K the meter had to
travel to $5.25 making the game unplayable most of the time. A few
years ago the meters started traveling in pennies. That changed
things. As long as you don't make the 4K at the exact time the meter
resets to $5.00 you get the extra quarter. So glance up before you
take the draw. And sometimes you will get $5.50, $5.75 ( the
calculation on this for the add-on is something I don't feel like
doing). You make 4K every 16 games. 4K value is 4.2 bets. The
extra .2 divided by 16 is 1.25%. Now, I'm not going to go into the
math on this but the SF pays at least 13.2, 5K at least 16.2, WR at
least 25.2 adding another .2% to the play. The higher hands are not
worth figuring. Now let's throw in the card, .33%. That brings the
play up to 98.5%. So to be at breakeven without anymore meter
movement you need 4D at(they get there frequently) about $350.00, or
the WR at about $44.00, or the 5K at about $26.00, or the SF at about
$20.00. On a weekly basis you'll get many plays at all these levels
if you monitor the bank. The win is the meter movement while you are
playing. Plus you get to eat like a king as the Nugget is very good
with meal comps.

Now. Strategy? Anyone who says they can play this game perfectly
with all those meters bouncing up and down is a prevaricator of the
highest order. My suggestion is to use the base strategy even if the
deuces are up. Trust me, it'll go easy on your brain not trying to
figure out which way to go with a 2 deuce hand when the deuces are at
$380.00 but the SF is at $22.00 or the deuces are at $360.00 but the
SF is at $18.00. Keeping your speed up using base strategy will pay
off. Also, when the deuces are up, the bank gets heavy action with
everybody shooting at the deuces, forsaking there chances for the SF
and WR causing those meters to go high. You'll be picking those
meters off. When the deuce meter is down the bank gets lots of short
coin action so I go ahead and take the shorts term plays on the SF,
5K, WR, as the short coiners are contributing to the meters but don't
qualify for them. Good Luck.

What is the base strategy?

···

At 06:46 AM 1/11/2006, you wrote:

Now. Strategy? Anyone who says they can play this game perfectly
with all those meters bouncing up and down is a prevaricator of the
highest order. My suggestion is to use the base strategy even if the
deuces are up.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What is the base strategy?

>Now. Strategy? Anyone who says they can play this game perfectly
>with all those meters bouncing up and down is a prevaricator of

the

>highest order. My suggestion is to use the base strategy even

if the

>deuces are up.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The base strategy is the one you would use if there were no meters.
Punch the following numbers into Strategy Master, Frugal, or
Winpoker. RF 800, 4D 200, WR 25, 5K 16, SF 13, 4K 4, FH 3, FL 2, ST
2, 3K 1

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@c...> wrote:

At 06:46 AM 1/11/2006, you wrote:

First of all, the game is the 16/13 payscale coming in at 96.76%
Second of all, here is the true meter movement: RF .33% 4D .5%
WR .33% 5K .33% SF .5% 4K .5%. Now don't try to argue with me on
this. I've been playing that bank for years. The meters used to

roll

in quarter increments so to get $5.25 for the 4K the meter had to
travel to $5.25 making the game unplayable most of the time. A few
years ago the meters started traveling in pennies. That changed
things. As long as you don't make the 4K at the exact time the

meter

resets to $5.00 you get the extra quarter. So glance up before you
take the draw. And sometimes you will get $5.50, $5.75 ( the
calculation on this for the add-on is something I don't feel like
doing). You make 4K every 16 games. 4K value is 4.2 bets. The
extra .2 divided by 16 is 1.25%. Now, I'm not going to go into the
math on this but the SF pays at least 13.2, 5K at least 16.2, WR at
least 25.2 adding another .2% to the play. The higher hands are

not

worth figuring. Now let's throw in the card, .33%. That brings the
play up to 98.5%. So to be at breakeven without anymore meter
movement you need 4D at(they get there frequently) about $350.00,

or

the WR at about $44.00, or the 5K at about $26.00, or the SF at

about

$20.00. On a weekly basis you'll get many plays at all these

levels

if you monitor the bank. The win is the meter movement while you

are

playing. Plus you get to eat like a king as the Nugget is very

good

with meal comps.

Now. Strategy? Anyone who says they can play this game perfectly
with all those meters bouncing up and down is a prevaricator of the
highest order. My suggestion is to use the base strategy even if

the

deuces are up. Trust me, it'll go easy on your brain not trying to
figure out which way to go with a 2 deuce hand when the deuces are

at

$380.00 but the SF is at $22.00 or the deuces are at $360.00 but

the

SF is at $18.00. Keeping your speed up using base strategy will

pay

off. Also, when the deuces are up, the bank gets heavy action with
everybody shooting at the deuces, forsaking there chances for the

SF

and WR causing those meters to go high. You'll be picking those
meters off. When the deuce meter is down the bank gets lots of

short

coin action so I go ahead and take the shorts term plays on the SF,
5K, WR, as the short coiners are contributing to the meters but

don't

qualify for them. Good Luck.

This sounds like the definitive best advice you could ask for when
playing this game. Thanks for so generously offering it! This is
quite an unusual progressive ... a progressive even for the
relatively common 4K. Usually progressives apply only to very rare
hands.

I did take the time to check the levels where the RF and 4Deuces
drive the return to 100% ($2600 and $463 respectively). It's nice to
see the .20% for the 4Deuces.

I notice your percentages add to 2.49%. I'm guessing it's actually
2.5%, the difference due to rounding.

I notice everyone refers to the individual hand percentages
as "feedrates". I use "feedrate" only for the overall game ... 2.5%
in this case. The other percentages I call the "allocation
percentages", and together they comprise the "allocation scheme" of
the game. The allocation percents always add to 100%. For this game
the allocation percentages are 13.33%, 20%, 13.33%, 13.33%, 20% and
20%, which adds to 99.99% (rounded its 100%). This is strictly my
preference, to avoid confusion when discussing games with 2 or more
progressives.

Plus, there is another reason. The feedrate and allocation scheme
serve several purposes. The feedrate and allocation scheme
together determine the likelyhood a game will go positive. But the
allocation scheme has a unique use ... to setup a practice playing
strategy. The feedrate has nothing to do with setting up a playing
strategy.

However, as you pointed out, I don't think any of this is relevant
for this game because the progressives hop up and down too often.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@y...> wrote: