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The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist

#1

3.1. Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist
Date: Sun Feb 3, 2008 2:36 pm ((PST))

... But if you're an out-of-town visitor -- and face it, most

Strip casinos are targeted squarely at out-of-town visitors -- a 60
day deadline on a sports ticket might very well be similarly
unrealistic.

The casinos where I've asked have all said that if I'm not back in person, I can send my ticket in by certified mail and get a check. I think one even told me just to call the sports book and they'd tell me exactly how to do it. I'm sure I would keep a copy of my ticket as a backup to "we never got it" -- and as others with "lost" tickets have suggested, if you can document somehow that you made the bet, and no one else submits the ticket by the exp. date, the casino will often THEN "make good", so even if it doesn't get there, you might be OK.

I've never had to use this option, and I would be concerned that someone gets their hand on the ticket and takes it to cash themselves via a friend (after all, it's as much like cash as a payout ticket on a TITO machine), but at least you're not completely locked in to an in-person appearance.

When I've bought Powerball tickets "on the road" (away from my home state too long to buy when there's a big jackpot I don't want to miss a chance at), there's an expiration date AND I have to cash the ticket in that state - even though I live in one of the other Powerball states, they won't cash a ticket sold in another state. I think that there, once again, there's usually an option for mail-in and getting a check, and I KNOW I've done that once, for a small amount, although I don't remember which state it was -- and I was able to get the instructions via a little internet exploration and email.

In either case, if the win was big enough that I didn't want to risk putting my ticket (= my money!!) in the mail, I'd make a special trip.

I know when I buy these tickets - sports or lottery - that there are conditions that apply. Only the inexperienced - or very inattentive - bettor has not learned this.

And once again, in spite of all this, I think it is bad business for a casino to have a substantially different policy than most of its competitors, and if I had no reason (such as a reduced "vig" charge) to take my business there, I would not do so. I would NOT have a problem with the state legislature or Gaming Commission putting a reasonable minimum time on cashing tickets, below which casinos could not go, to prevent really abusive policies -- but if that's not in place, the gambler must be cautious and become knowledgeable of the rules.

I would think, if you bought a ticket and then read it and then decided, within minutes and before leaving the premises, that you didn't like the terms, that most reasonable casinos (and I have no clue if Strat is such a casino) would refund / void your ticket.

--BG

···

=================

--BG

==================

#2

BG said, "I know when I buy these tickets - sports or lottery - that
there are conditions that apply. Only the inexperienced - or very
inattentive - bettor has not learned this."

That's very well put, BG.

This wizard guy shows up four months after the event and whines
to whomever will listen about not being paid. It's hard to believe
that someone with a name like "The Wizard of Odds" did not
know that the ticket he purchased was already void two months
before he attempted to get paid.

Of course he knew! And, he knew at the time he made the bet
what the casino's rules and conditions were.

The wiz even says, "I have no good excuse for letting it expire;
I simply lost track of time." Clearly, he knew.

The wiz also says, "Most sports books will honor expired tickets
anyway." So what? Should Stratosphere be obligated to do
what "most sports books" do?

No.

It's clear from the posts in this thread that some people on this
board think that this guy should not be responsible for his own
actions (letting a $2,900 winning ticket expire).

Puh-leez!

If the wiz is really the wiz of a wiz he is, then he should be smarter
than that!

The casino should not pay, just because their customer screwed up!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

<<It's clear from the posts in this thread that some people on this
board think that this guy should not be responsible for his own
actions (letting a $2,900 winning ticket expire).>>

He seems to be taking complete responsibility for his actions. The fact that
the ticket has an expiration date does not negate the casino's
responsibility to pay off the winning bet. He asked the casino nicely to pay
him the money they owe him. He appealed to a supervisor. He appealed to
Gaming, which I would expect to rule that having a policy denying the
payment of winning bets after 60 days is an unsuitable business method with
the potential to bring disrepute to the great State of Nevada. If for some
reason Gaming does not require the Stratosphere to pay the winning wager, he
will probably take them to court, where if the judge sees it as I do he will
direct the Stratosphere to "pay that man his money."

Cogno

#4

I don't know Michael Shackleford personally. If I did, I would shake
his hand and thank him profusely for all that he has added to my
personal knowledge and understanding of VP. All, I might add, w/o
charge.

I see nothing wrong with any expert charging for his/her expertise
and other services, but it should be noted that Michael does not.
Any interested party can log onto the Wizard of Odds and gain much
useful information.

For someone who has added so little useful information to this site,
as the individual below, to have the gaul to disrespect Michael
Shackleford and his immense contribution to VP, in this manner is
not only rude but ludicrous.

I have no quarrel whatsoever with those expressing opinions
differing from mine, about whether the expired ticket in question
should be honored. But I draw the line when a respected member of
our community is visciously attacked on this board.

Not only do I think that Mr. Fuller owes Michael Shackleford an
apology, but I believe that he should be ashamed of his vituperative
post!

~Babe~

···

============================================================
In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Luke Fuller" <kungalooosh@...> wrote:

.......This wizard guy shows up four months after the event and
whines to whomever will listen about not being paid. It's hard to
believe that someone with a name like "The Wizard of Odds" did not
know that the ticket he purchased was already void two months before
he attempted to get paid.
                           ~SNIP~

.......If the wiz is really the wiz of a wiz he is, then he should
be smarter than that!

The casino should not pay, just because their customer screwed up!

#5

Sorry, linguists, I meant GALL not Gaul! {(O:

~Babe~

···

=================================================
In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@...> wrote:
.........For someone who has added so little useful information to
this site, as the individual below, to have the gaul to disrespect
Michael Shackleford and his immense contribution to VP, in this manner
is not only rude but ludicrous...............

#6

Cogno said: "He seems to be taking complete responsibility
for his actions."

He was responsible for cashing in his ticket before the
expiration date. If he had not been so irresponsible, he
would have been paid and he would not have had to file a
claim with the Gaming Commission.

Cogno said: "The fact that the ticket has an expiration date
does not negate the casino's responsibility to pay off the
winning bet."

Huh? Why not?

Cogno said: "He asked the casino nicely to pay him the money
they owe him."

They do not owe the money because the ticket is *expired.*
I'd like to see someone try to cash in a ticket from 10 years
ago....and then claim that the casino still owes the money!

Cogno said: "Having a policy denying the payment of winning
bets after 60 days is an unsuitable business method."

Who is to say what amount of time is a *suitable* business
method? Personally, I think two months is fine. If I didn't,
wouldn't bet there.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

jackessiebabe:

The Wizard's contributions to the VP world are irrelevant.
Whether he charges money for his information is irrelevant.
Whether he's a "nice guy" is irrelevant.

I am discussing the story he posted on his website:
http://wizardofodds.com/casinos/vegasblacklist.html

Previously, you posted, "IMO, if records to back up the win
are still available, there shouldn't be ANY time limit on
collecting on a valid winning bet."

Why not?

···

On 2/4/08, jackessiebabe <jackessiebabe@yahoo.com> wrote:

I don't know Michael Shackleford personally. If I did, I would shake
his hand and thank him profusely for all that he has added to my
personal knowledge and understanding of VP. All, I might add, w/o
charge.

I see nothing wrong with any expert charging for his/her expertise
and other services, but it should be noted that Michael does not.
Any interested party can log onto the Wizard of Odds and gain much
useful information.

For someone who has added so little useful information to this site,
as the individual below, to have the gaul to disrespect Michael
Shackleford and his immense contribution to VP, in this manner is
not only rude but ludicrous.

I have no quarrel whatsoever with those expressing opinions
differing from mine, about whether the expired ticket in question
should be honored. But I draw the line when a respected member of
our community is visciously attacked on this board.

Not only do I think that Mr. Fuller owes Michael Shackleford an
apology, but I believe that he should be ashamed of his vituperative
post!

~Babe~

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Whether he charges money for his information is irrelevant. Whether
he's a "nice guy" is irrelevant.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Luke Fuller" <kungalooosh@...> wrote:

The Wizard's contributions to the VP world are irrelevant.

=================================================
Your rude and disrespectful post regarding him is NOT irrelevant!

I am discussing the story he posted on his website:

http://wizardofodds.com/casinos/vegasblacklist.html

You may discuss it as long as you wish. When there is no one left
to carry on the conversation WITH you, feel free to talk to yourself
about it.

I gave my opinion on the subject when the thread began. I have not
changed my mind. I feel no need to repeat my previous thoughts.

~Babe~