The Secret Behind vpFREE

[vpFREE3]

I have a very good friend, that I occasionally meet in LV who is over
1-million hands of so-called perfect play on ducks, job, pkm, and dbp
with no royal. Most of it single line. When questioned, the Guru's
either call him a liar or that he is not using perfect play and, being
very rude, go on to another subject. I have witnessed one of these
encounters.

Amazing. I suspect you caught someone at a bad moment. I
believe that the the normal response on vpFREE would have
been to commiserate with your friend on his experience, and
perhaps quote the odds it having happened.

It all comes down to "special plays". Is there such a thing? I believe
so in certain circumstances. And there-in lies the problem. It is very
difficult to quantify "circumstances" because each machine and game is
unique and you will never be able to define it. I think this would make
a great discussion on VPFree, but the Guru's and their loyal followers
will never let it take place. They will disrupt the thread so badly
that the administrator will move it over here.

Such a thread (and most threads) is, are and have been welcome
on vpFREE. ***

I will ensure that serious ideas are given sufficient ink to present
their case. They may get scoffed at, but they can be heard.

I will say that I think VP software and maybe a book is good for folks
just beginning. But once you have the basics down of understanding the
game you are playing and have played it for some length, it is time to
more on to understanding the machine and what might also be possible.
This is the discussion that will never take place on VPFree.

Such a thread (and most threads) is, are and have been welcome
on vpFREE. ***

I will ensure that serious ideas are given sufficient ink to present
their case. They may get scoffed at, but they can be heard.

The loyal followers are very aware that any thread that becomes
disruptive will be moved over here and they will make sure that it is.

I'm not aware of this conspiracy. I will ensure that serious ideas
are given sufficient ink to present their case. They may get scoffed
at, but they can be heard.

vpFREE Administrator

*** Although discussion of the Singer system(s) on vpFREE is
discouraged, it's not prohibited, provided it isn't prolonged.
Links to his system are in the vpFREE FAQ.

···

On 9 Apr 2006 Bob Sommer - Top of the World wrote:

[vp_mavin]

Bob Sommer - Top of the World wrote:

I have a very good friend, that I occasionally meet in LV who is

over 1-million hands of so-called perfect play on ducks, job, pkm,
and dbp with no royal. Most of it single line.<<<

That would truly be highly unusual, but possible. I would suggest you
give a 100-play machines a shot, to get a real "feel" for video poker
volatility. Majestic Star outside Chicago has 8 100-play .01 machines
with 9/6 bonus deluxe. I'm amazed how true to expectation the royal
occurs, over a number of cycles, which can easily be done in an
afternoon. The other interesting note is how little, receiving the
proper number of royals, is to achieving EV for the day. I've often
hit the "correct" number of royals, or even have been over royaled
and come up far short of the EV for the day. Being shorted royals and
coming up way ahead also happens frequently. The nice thing about 100-
play is the long term is not so long!

Bob Sommer - Top of the World wrote:

... I think this would make a great discussion on VPFree, but the

Guru's and their loyal followers will never let it take place. They
will disrupt the thread so badly that the administrator will move it
over here.<<<

vpFREE Administrator <vp_free@...> wrote:

Such a thread (and most threads) is, are and have been welcome

on vpFREE. *** I will ensure that serious ideas are given sufficient
ink to present their case. They may get scoffed at, but they can be
heard.

*** Although discussion of the Singer system(s) on vpFREE is
discouraged, it's not prohibited, provided it isn't prolonged.
Links to his system are in the vpFREE FAQ.<<<

If this represents a broadening of the topics allowed on vpfree, this
is a welcome change.

The comments above should also apply to Dancer...a little dancer goes
a long way. Rob is a much better writer than Dancer, hence even if
the topic is tedious, the posting is often entertaining.

Why not let, or even encourage Rob to post at will on vpfree, and
those that wish it ignore his posts can use the delete key or scroll
key as the case may be.

At best 1-2% of the posts on vpfree are worth reading, but that's
still 20-30 a month, not bad. I would rather read an additional 20-30
good posts each month and willingly ignore/delete/scroll the extra
1,000 pap postings.

[2-WILD1]

I think what Bob is saying is that the "serious ideas" he mentioned
were heard (Skip's forum for sure), but we're scoffed at in a manner
that he found offensive.

Bob's a long-time player, and I respect him because he has no agenda
and only wants to share personal opinions for discussion. That's
fine but he should expect to be challenged when there are
contradictory facts.

His recent comments suggest he interpreted prior feedback personally
and that's unfortunate.

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, vpFREE Administrator <vp_free@...>
wrote:

> I have a very good friend, that I occasionally meet in LV who is

over

> 1-million hands of so-called perfect play on ducks, job, pkm, and

dbp

> with no royal. Most of it single line. When questioned, the

Guru's

> either call him a liar or that he is not using perfect play and,

being

> very rude, go on to another subject. I have witnessed one of

these

> encounters.

Amazing. I suspect you caught someone at a bad moment. I
believe that the the normal response on vpFREE would have
been to commiserate with your friend on his experience, and
perhaps quote the odds it having happened.

> It all comes down to "special plays". Is there such a thing? I

believe

> so in certain circumstances. And there-in lies the problem. It

is very

> difficult to quantify "circumstances" because each machine and

game is

> unique and you will never be able to define it. I think this

would make

> a great discussion on VPFree, but the Guru's and their loyal

followers

> will never let it take place. They will disrupt the thread so

badly

> that the administrator will move it over here.

Such a thread (and most threads) is, are and have been welcome
on vpFREE. ***

I will ensure that serious ideas are given sufficient ink to

present

their case. They may get scoffed at, but they can be heard.

> I will say that I think VP software and maybe a book is good for

folks

> just beginning. But once you have the basics down of

understanding the

> game you are playing and have played it for some length, it is

time to

> more on to understanding the machine and what might also be

possible.

> This is the discussion that will never take place on VPFree.

Such a thread (and most threads) is, are and have been welcome
on vpFREE. ***

I will ensure that serious ideas are given sufficient ink to

present

their case. They may get scoffed at, but they can be heard.

> The loyal followers are very aware that any thread that becomes
> disruptive will be moved over here and they will make sure that

it is.

I'm not aware of this conspiracy. I will ensure that serious ideas
are given sufficient ink to present their case. They may get

scoffed

···

On 9 Apr 2006 Bob Sommer - Top of the World wrote:
at, but they can be heard.

vpFREE Administrator

*** Although discussion of the Singer system(s) on vpFREE is
discouraged, it's not prohibited, provided it isn't prolonged.
Links to his system are in the vpFREE FAQ.

[Rob_Singer1]

I think what Bob is saying is that the "serious ideas" he mentioned
were heard (Skip's forum for sure), but we're scoffed at in a

manner

that he found offensive.

Bob's a long-time player, and I respect him because he has no

agenda

and only wants to share personal opinions for discussion. That's
fine but he should expect to be challenged when there are
contradictory facts.

His recent comments suggest he interpreted prior feedback

personally

and that's unfortunate.

Trying to make friends?.....

"That's fine but he should expect to be challenged when there are
contradictory facts."

Yeah right---so go ahead and name the facts and support them with
evidence. You fools thrive on patting each other on the backs when
asking others to support their opinions and/or assertions, but you
wiggle away with your tails tucked firmly between your legs when the
shoe's on the other foot.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "2-WILD" <lucky4K@...> wrote:

[Mark1]

OK all is right with the world. The vpFREE Administrator has (for
the second time) ended his discussion with me, and the Mr. Singer we
all know and (cough cough) love has returned below. I can lurk in
peace.

-MARK

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@...> wrote:

Yeah right---so go ahead and name the facts and support them with
evidence. You fools thrive on patting each other on the backs when
asking others to support their opinions and/or assertions, but you
wiggle away with your tails tucked firmly between your legs when the
shoe's on the other foot.