vpFREE2 Forums

The power of group play

#1

The post about the "gang of three" at MSS causing the death of that
play made me reflect on how although these people went about it the
wrong way, the "team approach" is a powerful strategy for smoothing
out the fluctuations of positive VP.

We have played on twosomes, threesomes, and foursomes. The game of
choice has been FPDW. We generally play a couple of hours, then take
a dinner break (note: we almost NEVER "lock down" the machines while
we're eating unless these are the only positive machines there).
After dinner we put in 2-4 hours depending on mood, fatigue, other
commitments, etc. (one thing that will make us hang it up for the
day is if we catch ourselves making a silly mistake due to fatigue).
We all play at 800-1000 hands/hr with a very low error rate; we all
have confidence in one another's play.

What seems to happen very often is that one person gets smooshed;
another orbits around the breakeven point; another hits deuces. This
results in an essentially breakeven situation, but every so often,
we ALL hit deuces, or someone hits a royal, etc. The thing is, even
some ghastly result like -$700 is only -$233 when split up; and yes,
similarly, nobody's going to leave the casino up $1000 even if they
DO hit a royal.

What we are doing is maximizing our hand count in order to realize
our small advantage; it's not unlike what the casino does at the
blackjack table (keep dealing, dealing, dealing). Another not
inconsiderable advantage is that if we play side-by-side at the end
of a bank, only one person at most will have to put up with some
inconsiderate boor blowing the stink from his or her pigarette in
his face. (How many times have you been playing solo on a good
machine, and then some clown sits down next to you and lights up
what smells like a burning tire, thus driving you away? (and if you
even so much as cough or try to wave the smoke away from your face,
you're liable to get some unsolicited lecture from the smoker about
how this is a CASINO and you should EXPECT pigarette smoke, etc.
etc. blah blah blah)).

Anyway, if you have some way of forming such a group, either friends
or family members, or whatever, you'll find it takes most of the
stress out of playing solo, and I've found that it's more fun, too.

#2

We have found this to be a strong plus, even for a couple. Does smooth out the rollercoaster ride somewhat. But there are those times when both of you lose that we are glad we have a VERY adequate bankroll!!!

···

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards and for the
  Frugal series of books.

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#3

Jean Scott wrote:

We have found this to be a strong plus, even for a couple. Does
smooth out the rollercoaster ride somewhat.

Of course, in the case of a couple, you're still bearing 100% of the
risk between you so that, as you note, "sharing" the losses isn't
necessarily comfortable :wink:

But when a bankroll for a play is shared between two or more
independent parties it creates opportunities for them that
individually may not be obtainable. This can be the case with higher
denomination progressives that require a bankroll beyond that of one
of the individuals but that can be approached much more comfortably
when people agree to share the play risk. This is also the case with
high volatility plays.

Key to such a partnership is implicit trust that results will be
represented accurately and that your partner(s) plays with a skill
level that doesn't sacrifice an uncomfortable amount of EV.

The basic mechanics behind the advantage of a shared bankroll is that
when both players play equally, you bear 50% of the risk of your play
and 50% of the risk of theirs. Over time, you're still bearing risk
on the same total $ coin-in, but it's spread over twice the number of
hands -- essentially pushing play toward "long-term" results more
quickly (i.e., smoothing wins/losses, and thus risk).

Exceptional opportunities give rise to teams, both to share the risk
and also to hasten a jackpot hit before someone else hits it. This is
what becomes troublesome. All too often some teams exhibit behavior
that can only be described as the equivalent of obnoxious littering.

Undesirable behaviors by some draws unfortunate attention to strong
plays, not to mention crowding out less skilled players who otherwise
keep the machines profitable for the casino. Yet those involved seem
to either be totally oblivious to their behavior or, more likely, not
give a damn - betraying a "live for today" short-sighted mentality.

- Harry

#4

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote:

We have played on twosomes, threesomes, and foursomes. The game of
choice has been FPDW. We generally play a couple of hours, then

take

a dinner break (note: we almost NEVER "lock down" the machines

while

···

we're eating unless these are the only positive machines there).

===================================================================

Can someone please explain to me what the heck is wrong with

locking down a machine that you've been playing for hours (is there
something wrong with that also?) for a 15 minute restroom break or a
45 minute meal break? My husband & I were playing a NSUD prog. at
the Peppermill/Reno, which was at $2800 when we started playing, and
at $2900 when we quit for the night. The next morning, on our way to
breakfast, at 8:00 AM, we noticed it was at $3200+. We couldn't
believe it was still up and running. After breakfast, we managed to
get two seats together, and played that cold sucker until lunch
time. We then asked the slot person to shut both the machines down
for 45 minutes, and they accomodated us. So what?? We were only
gone about 30 minutes, resumed play, and continued to pound away
until we left for the airport at about 2:00 PM. Despite some
secondary hits (we each the prog. deuces twice, and prog. WRF
numerous times) we lost a combined $1000+ during total play on those
dogs. Is there some reason (other than to have saved some of our
hard earned dough) that we should have given up those machines
(which with my WinPoker calc were 104% positive) so that someone
else could pick off the Royal? Who is that altruistic and
unselfish?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Anyway, if you have some way of forming such a group, either

friends

or family members, or whatever, you'll find it takes most of the
stress out of playing solo, and I've found that it's more fun, too.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I agree 100%. I love to play side-by-side with my husband. We have
LOTS of fun & laughs. It's good for our spirits, and our marriage.
Since I'm the REAL vp player in the family, he usually asks ny
advice about difficult or unusual hands. This is good for my ego
too, since, in most situations, he's much the smarter one. I pay
him back, for his many hours of vp company, by going to about 60
baseball games each summer with him. It's a good trade-off.
Anyway, it works for us and we've been married a VERY long time.

A Royal to all today!

Best, Babe

#5

Sometime's I think I cant trust my wife, let alone a perfect stranger. <g>

Ned C.
The Wild Joker

···

Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:
Key to such a partnership is implicit trust that results will be
represented accurately and that your partner(s) plays with a skill
level that doesn't sacrifice an uncomfortable amount of EV.

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!

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#6

The Wild Joker wrote:

   Sometime's I think I cant trust my wife, let alone a perfect
stranger. <g>

At first glance I thought I read, "let alone WITH a perfect stranger".

- H.