At 2AM quarter Joker was at $2,658
Dollar at $8,351
If you include the card cash-back, mailer and meter-rise this is getting pretty good.
My next free day I can play is Friday. If ya-all haven't hit it by then I may have to just go down and show you how it's done.
~FK
P.S. My other option for Friday activities is a date with a girl I met at a Palms party. Please hit the progressive. Oh, and I'm not making this up. I'm being serious for a change.
You keep assuming that all video poker players get mailers. That is not the case. Has this casino manager guy talked to marketing about welcoming video poker players back? When I asked my host about getting back on the mailing list, he refused to answer the question and says he can comp me a meal if I come in.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
If you include the card cash-back, mailer and meter-rise this is getting pretty good.
We only discussed not de-mailing people for playing the progressive. We did not discuss re-mailing people that have already lost mail for other reasons.
I'll talk to Bob and see what he thinks.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer" <vegasvpplayer@...> wrote: You keep assuming that all video poker players get mailers. That is not the case. Has this casino manager guy talked to marketing about welcoming video poker players back? When I asked my host about getting back on the mailing list, he refused to answer the question and says he can comp me a meal if I come in.
Bob's reply:
There were a number of reasons players were demailed. The most common is that after downloading their free play, they pulled their card before playing it off. This allowed them to make 15 downloads with no trips. Since M mailer is based on an "average trip basis," players who did this were considered to be cheating the system. I understand players do not like this basis, but it is what it is and it isn't going to change.
There has been a new marketing vp (Scotty Rutledge) since approximately the first of the year. Players who were demailed for this reason may want to contact Rutledge srutledge@themresort.com and swear they will never do it again and plead for a second chance. If you are allowed back in, and pull your card again while downloading free play, don't expect a third chance.
There are likely many other reasons players were demailed --- including some for more blatant cheating --- which will likely never be reversed. For the most part it's Rutledge's decision --- and if you don't ask you for sure won't get back in. If you do ask, maybe, maybe not.
Bob
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
We only discussed not de-mailing people for playing the progressive. We did not discuss re-mailing people that have already lost mail for other reasons.
I'll talk to Bob and see what he thinks.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer" <vegasvpplayer@> wrote: You keep assuming that all video poker players get mailers. That is not the case. Has this casino manager guy talked to marketing about welcoming video poker players back? When I asked my host about getting back on the mailing list, he refused to answer the question and says he can comp me a meal if I come in.
>
A few were no-mailed before the M even started mailers. Back when the M was doing double points everyday and had tons of single-line NSU and briefly multi-line 9/6 Bdlx, apparently they felt playing intelligently was also "cheating the system."
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
Bob's reply:
There were a number of reasons players were demailed.
Fingers off the delete key.
Here's my very useful addition to this dilemma. Take heed all this is one of my posts you'll want to read.
There are two categories of card pullers:
1. Innovators
2. Imitators
I was sitting next to a little old lady that begun the process of collecting her money and heard a person next to her say, "you know when you pick up your free play, you should always pull your card after you download it, especially if you aren't going to play much today. This way you keep getting the same amount. Etc..."
She complied and thanked the person for their suggestion, though I seriously doubt she had any clue of the full ramification of what she was doing. She did it because everyone else was doing it. Not because it was her idea.
I'm going to hazard a guess that this was not an isolated incident. A large number of card pullers have probably just been going along with the trend. If you are an imitators and can convince the casino of this fact, I'm sure it would help your case for reinstatement.
If you have ever seen a cop fail to pull over a person doing 10 miles over the speed limit, because everyone else was doing 15 miles over then you have witnessed this tendency to overlook transgression when "everybody is doing it".
I certainly believe this was the case at the M and pointing that out could help.
I was also told by someone that I should pull my card at the M. I ignored them...perhaps because I've never had any luck "pulling out" in the past.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
Bob's reply:
There were a number of reasons players were demailed. The most common is that after downloading their free play, they pulled their card before playing it off. This allowed them to make 15 downloads with no trips. Since M mailer is based on an "average trip basis," players who did this were considered to be cheating the system. I understand players do not like this basis, but it is what it is and it isn't going to change.
There has been a new marketing vp (Scotty Rutledge) since approximately the first of the year. Players who were demailed for this reason may want to contact Rutledge srutledge@... and swear they will never do it again and plead for a second chance. If you are allowed back in, and pull your card again while downloading free play, don't expect a third chance.
There are likely many other reasons players were demailed --- including some for more blatant cheating --- which will likely never be reversed. For the most part it's Rutledge's decision --- and if you don't ask you for sure won't get back in. If you do ask, maybe, maybe not.
Bob
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> We only discussed not de-mailing people for playing the progressive. We did not discuss re-mailing people that have already lost mail for other reasons.
>
> I'll talk to Bob and see what he thinks.
>
> ~FK
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer" <vegasvpplayer@> wrote: You keep assuming that all video poker players get mailers. That is not the case. Has this casino manager guy talked to marketing about welcoming video poker players back? When I asked my host about getting back on the mailing list, he refused to answer the question and says he can comp me a meal if I come in.
> >
>
You speak truth, but please keep in mind there have been staff changes since then. "The Casino" is an inanimate object with no malice and therefore blameless. I believe the specific person responsible for that policy is no longer there. You'd be surprised how often it is one single person that sets policy. Very little in a casino is done democratically. Perhaps because original thought is discouraged.
One bad apple spoils the barrel.
~FK
P.S. I have no hard information, only her-say on this topic. I'm guessing. I only met the new staff. They seemed very nice.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "seedub49" <seedub49@...> wrote:
A few were no-mailed before the M even started mailers. Back when the M was doing double points everyday and had tons of single-line NSU and briefly multi-line 9/6 Bdlx, apparently they felt playing intelligently was also "cheating the system."
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> Bob's reply:
>
> There were a number of reasons players were demailed.
I gotta know..What's considered blatant cheating?
I have such a hard time wrapping my head around this.
The casinos are the ones offering "promotions", "multipliers", "free play" and "fp video poker". They are the ones who are responsible for putting any conditions on these perks (such as "don't pull your card after you download free play" - AND REGARDLESS they are the ones who run the computers that can track your downloaded free play, so I don't get "cheating". I get bad or lazy programing that does not compensate for card pulling).
They are the ones offering the FP Video poker. If they don't want people who are good at video poker, why put in the FP machines? If they want crap players, put in crap machines. Don't advertise over 100% payback (with optimal play) if you would kick a player out for optimal play. That just frosts my flakes 
If the don't want people to use their promotions, then they shouldn't run them. (ie 10x points that got people kicked out).
They have all the power. All of it.
Blatant cheating is rigging a slot machine or putting in fake dice. I don't consider anything a player does that can't get them arrested to be cheating. And anything that doesn't fall under "cheating" is "policy" and the person setting the policy is the one who is to blame if it doesn't quite work out the way they planned. And that's the Casino (Marketing).
That's my story and I'm sticking too it
Cam
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
Bob's reply:
There were a number of reasons players were demailed. The most common is that after downloading their free play, they pulled their card before playing it off. This allowed them to make 15 downloads with no trips. Since M mailer is based on an "average trip basis," players who did this were considered to be cheating the system. I understand players do not like this basis, but it is what it is and it isn't going to change.
There has been a new marketing vp (Scotty Rutledge) since approximately the first of the year. Players who were demailed for this reason may want to contact Rutledge srutledge@... and swear they will never do it again and plead for a second chance. If you are allowed back in, and pull your card again while downloading free play, don't expect a third chance.
There are likely many other reasons players were demailed --- including some for more blatant cheating --- which will likely never be reversed. For the most part it's Rutledge's decision --- and if you don't ask you for sure won't get back in. If you do ask, maybe, maybe not.
Bob
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> We only discussed not de-mailing people for playing the progressive. We did not discuss re-mailing people that have already lost mail for other reasons.
>
> I'll talk to Bob and see what he thinks.
>
> ~FK
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer" <vegasvpplayer@> wrote: You keep assuming that all video poker players get mailers. That is not the case. Has this casino manager guy talked to marketing about welcoming video poker players back? When I asked my host about getting back on the mailing list, he refused to answer the question and says he can comp me a meal if I come in.
> >
>
Cam, I agree with most of what you said. I believe the rule "always play with your card inserted" is part of the M's rules. And pulling your card would indeed be "against their rules". I don't have the rules in front of me, so if this was one of those wonderful unwritten rules, shame on them.
The other examples you stated of casinos kicking people out merely for playing a promotion that they offered are indeed very sad and reprehensible. Bob & I chastised the Suncoast recently on-air for just such a debacle.
We hope the fear of bad press will help to keep some casinos in line. We do what we can with our own version of "tip of the hat--wag of the finger." Not much else anyone can do.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "camwellcam" <camwellcam@...> wrote:
I gotta know..What's considered blatant cheating?
I have such a hard time wrapping my head around this.
The casinos are the ones offering "promotions", "multipliers", "free play" and "fp video poker". They are the ones who are responsible for putting any conditions on these perks (such as "don't pull your card after you download free play" - AND REGARDLESS they are the ones who run the computers that can track your downloaded free play, so I don't get "cheating". I get bad or lazy programing that does not compensate for card pulling).
They are the ones offering the FP Video poker. If they don't want people who are good at video poker, why put in the FP machines? If they want crap players, put in crap machines. Don't advertise over 100% payback (with optimal play) if you would kick a player out for optimal play. That just frosts my flakes
If the don't want people to use their promotions, then they shouldn't run them. (ie 10x points that got people kicked out).
They have all the power. All of it.
Blatant cheating is rigging a slot machine or putting in fake dice. I don't consider anything a player does that can't get them arrested to be cheating. And anything that doesn't fall under "cheating" is "policy" and the person setting the policy is the one who is to blame if it doesn't quite work out the way they planned. And that's the Casino (Marketing).
That's my story and I'm sticking too it
Cam
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> Bob's reply:
>
> There were a number of reasons players were demailed. The most common is that after downloading their free play, they pulled their card before playing it off. This allowed them to make 15 downloads with no trips. Since M mailer is based on an "average trip basis," players who did this were considered to be cheating the system. I understand players do not like this basis, but it is what it is and it isn't going to change.
>
> There has been a new marketing vp (Scotty Rutledge) since approximately the first of the year. Players who were demailed for this reason may want to contact Rutledge srutledge@ and swear they will never do it again and plead for a second chance. If you are allowed back in, and pull your card again while downloading free play, don't expect a third chance.
>
> There are likely many other reasons players were demailed --- including some for more blatant cheating --- which will likely never be reversed. For the most part it's Rutledge's decision --- and if you don't ask you for sure won't get back in. If you do ask, maybe, maybe not.
>
> Bob
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
> >
> > We only discussed not de-mailing people for playing the progressive. We did not discuss re-mailing people that have already lost mail for other reasons.
> >
> > I'll talk to Bob and see what he thinks.
> >
> > ~FK
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer" <vegasvpplayer@> wrote: You keep assuming that all video poker players get mailers. That is not the case. Has this casino manager guy talked to marketing about welcoming video poker players back? When I asked my host about getting back on the mailing list, he refused to answer the question and says he can comp me a meal if I come in.
> > >
> >
>
I have done this more or less since they opened....
Hard to understand how I failed to get booted.
QZ
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
Bob's reply:
There were a number of reasons players were demailed. The most common is that after downloading their free play, they pulled their card before playing it off. This allowed them to make 15 downloads with no trips. Since M mailer is based on an "average trip basis," players who did this were considered to be cheating the system. I understand players do not like this basis, but it is what it is and it isn't going to change.
You hit it out of the park with that answer.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "camwellcam" <camwellcam@...> wrote:
Blatant cheating is rigging a slot machine or putting in fake dice. I don't consider anything a player does that can't get them arrested to be cheating. And anything that doesn't fall under "cheating" is "policy" and the person setting the policy is the one who is to blame if it doesn't quite work out the way they planned. And that's the Casino (Marketing).
That's my story and I'm sticking too it
Cam
I guess I need some learnin' here - what exactly is this about? I haven't heard about this "trick".
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "what7do7you7want" <what7do7you7want@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> Bob's reply:
>
> There were a number of reasons players were demailed. The most common is that after downloading their free play, they pulled their card before playing it off. This allowed them to make 15 downloads with no trips. Since M mailer is based on an "average trip basis," players who did this were considered to be cheating the system. I understand players do not like this basis, but it is what it is and it isn't going to change.
>I have done this more or less since they opened....
Hard to understand how I failed to get booted.
QZ
I do not play much in Vegas, so this may be a naive request. If it is
naive, I apologize in advance -- but I too would appreciate a translation.
What is seemingly being said (see below) is that "free play" downloaded from
a card which is removed before the "free play" is exhausted, can be
downloaded 15 times (why 15? and is that 15 times per month?), without the
computer realizing that the player is in the house.
So the computer recognizes the card -- dispenses goodies but then "forgets"
the transaction if the card is pulled quickly?
A fascinating glitch in programming? Or is there some underlying wisdom
that escapes me?
Is this true at other establishments? In other jurisdictions?
Thanks.
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:25 AM, cheryl10jqka <cheryl.mohme@gmail.com>wrote:
I guess I need some learnin' here - what exactly is this about? I haven't
heard about this "trick".--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "what7do7you7want" <what7do7you7want@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
> >
> > Bob's reply:
> >
> > There were a number of reasons players were demailed. The most common
is that after downloading their free play, they pulled their card before
playing it off. This allowed them to make 15 downloads with no trips. Since
M mailer is based on an "average trip basis," players who did this were
considered to be cheating the system. I understand players do not like this
basis, but it is what it is and it isn't going to change.
> >
>
>
> I have done this more or less since they opened....
>
> Hard to understand how I failed to get booted.
>
> QZ
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wouldn't worry about it. "This trick" as you call it, is seriously frowned upon and can get you into hot water.
Some have argued that since it is possible it, the casino shouldn't be upset when you do it. That is certainly one way to look at it.
I would err on the side of caution. Of course I've never been a climb the mountain because it's there kind of guy, especially if the valley has nicer weather.
Apparently some have gotten away with it and not had issue. You have to do a cost/benefit analysis and decide if the reward is worth the risk.
For some, the excitement of getting one over on the casino is their reward even more than financial gain. If you are in this category then you might indeed want to try to get away with "this trick", since for you the JP is getting away with something...and this is certainly an opportunity.
I believe the financial EV of playing it straight is now superior at the M with their new progressive. I have no hard numbers to back this up. Since I only play for profit "fun" doesn't enter into my decisions. I choose not to use "the trick" at the M, because I calculated a greater long term value to staying in good graces with them. As it turned out for me this was a good idea. It could easily have gone the other way, and I could simply missed out on the extra income some made for a few months before the hammer came down.
It's a difficult decision. Good luck. I can see the issue from both sides, and I find I'm having difficulty deciding who the bad guy is.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cheryl10jqka" <cheryl.mohme@...> wrote: I guess I need some learnin' here - what exactly is this about? I haven't heard about this "trick".
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "what7do7you7want" <what7do7you7want@> wrote: I have done this more or less since they opened....
Hard to understand how I failed to get booted.
QZ
Some have argued that since it is possible it, the casino shouldn't be upset when you do it. That is certainly one way to look at it.
well if pulling cards is important to them, they should be more proactive. they could have freeplay count down while you play it or have "session in progress" when you try to pull your card. either method would fix the problem for the casino instead of being reactionary by blaming the players...
Obviously an extreme parallel, but I think there can be some drawn here.
http://1490womi.com/australians-face-arrest-for-taking-free-money-from-atm-machines/
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 11:40 AM, irdd3000 <irdd@netzero.net> wrote:
>
> Some have argued that since it is possible it, the casino shouldn't be
upset when you do it. That is certainly one way to look at it.
>well if pulling cards is important to them, they should be more proactive.
they could have freeplay count down while you play it or have "session in
progress" when you try to pull your card. either method would fix the
problem for the casino instead of being reactionary by blaming the
players...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I agree with you. I believe it is a limitation of the software suite they purchased which would cost roughly $10,000,000 to replace.
If you take this into consideration, their "fix" for the issue may make more sense. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it is understandable.
I'll be camping for the next couple of days, cheers all.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "irdd3000" <irdd@...> wrote:
>
> Some have argued that since it is possible it, the casino shouldn't be upset when you do it. That is certainly one way to look at it.
>well if pulling cards is important to them, they should be more proactive. they could have freeplay count down while you play it or have "session in progress" when you try to pull your card. either method would fix the problem for the casino instead of being reactionary by blaming the players...
No, what they are talking about here is downloading your freeplay, playing only the freeplay through once and then leaving with the hope that the player tracking system does not record that you were in the casino and thus lowering your daily average coin-in.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: rprosdc@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 10:27:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: The M progressive reportI do not play much in Vegas, so this may be a naive request. If it is
naive, I apologize in advance -- but I too would appreciate a translation.
What is seemingly being said (see below) is that "free play" downloaded from
a card which is removed before the "free play" is exhausted, can be
downloaded 15 times (why 15? and is that 15 times per month?), without the
computer realizing that the player is in the house.So the computer recognizes the card -- dispenses goodies but then "forgets"
the transaction if the card is pulled quickly?A fascinating glitch in programming? Or is there some underlying wisdom
that escapes me?Is this true at other establishments? In other jurisdictions?
Thanks.
>
>
> I guess I need some learnin' here - what exactly is this about? I haven't
> heard about this "trick".
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "what7do7you7want" <what7do7you7want@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Bob's reply:
> > >
> > > There were a number of reasons players were demailed. The most common
> is that after downloading their free play, they pulled their card before
> playing it off. This allowed them to make 15 downloads with no trips. Since
> M mailer is based on an "average trip basis," players who did this were
> considered to be cheating the system. I understand players do not like this
> basis, but it is what it is and it isn't going to change.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I have done this more or less since they opened....
> >
> > Hard to understand how I failed to get booted.
> >
> > QZ
> >
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:25 AM, cheryl10jqka <cheryl.mohme@gmail.com>wrote:
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
If the software is defective, they need to go after the vendor to fix the problem. Stop blaming the customers for finding faults in your casino. Also, if you're trying to rate customers to see who you can get the most money from, basing the rating system on whether or not somebody stumbles onto a casino flaw is bogus. That tells you absolutely nothing about their playing abilities. Just look at this example: Frank and Bob are two of the best gamblers in Vegas, and it looks like neither of them were aware of this flaw or they chose not to do it because they thought it might have ramifications, like getting "no-mailed". I also suspect that there is no such flaw in modern software, the software actually identifies "card pullers" because that was an issue in the past and the casino is under the mistaken impression that it needs to halt all mailers to customers that the software identifies as "card pullers" or they are under the mistaken impression that the software can still be fooled by "card pulling".
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
I agree with you. I believe it is a limitation of the software suite they purchased which would cost roughly $10,000,000 to replace.
If you take this into consideration, their "fix" for the issue may make more sense. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it is understandable.
I'll be camping for the next couple of days, cheers all.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "irdd3000" <irdd@> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Some have argued that since it is possible it, the casino shouldn't be upset when you do it. That is certainly one way to look at it.
> >
>
> well if pulling cards is important to them, they should be more proactive. they could have freeplay count down while you play it or have "session in progress" when you try to pull your card. either method would fix the problem for the casino instead of being reactionary by blaming the players...
>
Especially in today's environment, I'm not doing anything to get me in hot water if I can help it. Longevity is more important to me than anything. Last night in a local casino I saw a crisp $5 bill on the floor. I was tempted to leave it alone, but saw a guard nearby and I picked it up and gave it to him and explained where I found it. I was careful to note his name. I'm not doing ANYTHING wrong. If it had been $100 bill, I still would have given it to the guard.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it. "This trick" as you call it, is seriously frowned upon and can get you into hot water.
<snip>