The poster(s) who alluded to the good old days when bonusing slots
first came out, are if anything understating the case. This was
easy, almost effortless, free money. You even had the luxury of
rejecting the marginal EV plays and only attacking the juiciest
ones, if you didn't want the fluctuation. In the Vegas heyday, it
was possible to clear $200 a day with no risk, even AFTER the
dirtbags caught on and you had to compete with others for the
available opportunities. These machines gradually disappeared since
for the player who didn't play until the bonus was collected, their
EV was MUCH worse than standard slots. (Not unlike a VP progressive
with a reduced-from-fullpay paytable.)
I remember driving back from Florida one time (after the Vegas
bonusing slots had started to be removed) and stopping at the
Gulfport Grand in Mississippi to check it out. After seeing not very
much that was interesting (their best VP is and was a variation of
9/7 DB), I went upstairs to try their buffet. Walking down the
hallway, what did I see but dozens--DOZENS--of new Cherry Pie
machines (and some Racing Sevens, Temp's Rising, etc.) on pallets
waiting to be taken downstairs and installed. To make a long story
short, I wound up staying there a week...and made $3500 on .25
machines, with about $15,000 coin-in. It was like Christmas in June;
dozens of friendly little ATM-like slot machines that loved to give
away money.
Family circumstances prevented me from going from city to city as
new casinos opened up, but there were bonusing slot "eras" (as I
mentioned above, these machines had a limited life) in Colorado,
Deadwood, Kansas City, St. Louis, Davenport, Shreveport, and Tunica,
to name just a few jurisdictions. Always, totally free and easy
money awaited. I drove cross-country many times those few years and
planned my route so as to hit a fresh casino that I knew had
bonusing slots on every trip. Video poker, hell---I was playing at
about a +30% EV on these things. As long as I played with a modicum
of discipline, I COULDN'T lose.
I also loved those Odysseys that sometimes had FOUR bonusing games
at once installed. That riverboat gambler poker game where you
played for the bonus pot against a computer character--now that game
was FUN (AND profitable)!
I really doubt that any opportunity like that will ever exist again.
This was like playing blackjack with a free Ace as your first card,
or poker with a marked deck, or basketball when your opponents are
on crutches.
Oh, and to sound a familiar note: at least two authors published
books on how to beat bonusing slots just about the time when it was
too late to take advantage of the information.
The heady days of bonusing slots
Thanks for the walk down memory lane. I know of hustlers who did just
that, travel around to all the new happy hunting grounds. One guy
told me when he couldn't make $1500/week he would move on. I remember
a new high limit room that put in over 20 high denom. bonus slots.
Before they were turned on there was a guy cruising the room, you
could almost see him salivating. Never saw him in this casino before,
was clearly a pro who had inside info on where these machines were
going. Heaven knows how much money this guy made traveling and
burning up these plays at the start when the BIG money was there.
You are right there will probably never be anything like this again.
Walking down the
hallway, what did I see but dozens--DOZENS--of new Cherry Pie
machines (and some Racing Sevens, Temp's Rising, etc.) on pallets
waiting to be taken downstairs and installed. To make a long story
short, I wound up staying there a week...and made $3500 on .25
machines, with about $15,000 coin-in. It was like Christmas in
June;
dozens of friendly little ATM-like slot machines that loved to give
away money.
Family circumstances prevented me from going from city to city as
new casinos opened up, but there were bonusing slot "eras" (as I
mentioned above, these machines had a limited life) in Colorado,
Deadwood, Kansas City, St. Louis, Davenport, Shreveport, and
Tunica,
···
to name just a few jurisdictions. Always, totally free and easy
money awaited. I drove cross-country many times those few years and
planned my route so as to hit a fresh casino that I knew had
bonusing slots on every trip. Video poker, hell---I was playing at
about a +30% EV on these things. As long as I played with a modicum
of discipline, I COULDN'T lose.
I also loved those Odysseys that sometimes had FOUR bonusing games
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...>
wrote:
The poster(s) who alluded to the good old days when bonusing slots
first came out, are if anything understating the case. This was
easy, almost effortless, free money.
snip
Interesting, but I don't understand why the casinos would have removed
them. Perhaps I'm not understanding something about this, and I'm
curious. If these "bonusing" slots works something like a
progressive, for instance, and are profitable to the knowledgable
player who picks and chooses the machines that have the higher ER,
than how does that matter to the casino, and how is that affecting the
casino's profits. What difference does it make to the casino who it
is who is walking away with the occasional jackpots. Also, I know
that new slot games are released periodically; is there any reason why
none of them are bonusing games? It seems logical that if "Cherry
Pie", etc., were profitable when they were first released, that other
new games could also be profitable. I'm just wondering why the
game-designers and casinos would have chosen "bonusing" games in the
first place and then decide that they are not such a good idea? Any
thoughts? Or are there actually such games still out there, and those
in the know are just keeping it to themselves? That would make sense.
Thanks for helping to set me straight on all this.
Cheers.
Bill Velek
Bill Velek wrote:
Interesting, but I don't understand why the casinos would have removed
them <bonusing slots>.
I'm speaking partly on inference here, but bonusing slots produce a
handful of people who lurk over banks - loitering if you will - until
casual play put the machines into a "positive" position and then
they'd swoop in the reap the bonus. (I've witnessed this even at
Bellagio.)
It wasn't the prettiest of pictures and ultimately some casual players
start to avoid the machines, sensing that they didn't have a
reasonable shot at the bonus.
Casinos have responded by thinning the ranks of these machines and/or
slowing the rate at which the bonuses are rewarded.
- Harry
Harry Porter wrote:
Bill Velek wrote:
> Interesting, but I don't understand why the casinos would have removed
> them <bonusing slots>.I'm speaking partly on inference here, but bonusing slots produce a
handful of people who lurk over banks - loitering if you will - until
casual play put the machines into a "positive" position and then
they'd swoop in the reap the bonus. (I've witnessed this even at
Bellagio.)It wasn't the prettiest of pictures and ultimately some casual players
start to avoid the machines, sensing that they didn't have a
reasonable shot at the bonus.
snip
Thanks, Harry. That makes sense, but then again it raises a question, and I'm assuming now that those machines are linked to a progressive, since you said: "... until casual play put the _machines_ into a 'positive' position." If a casual player played the game while it was negative, then obviously s/he doesn't know when the machine turns positive, and probably doesn't even clearly understand the concept of ER and positive versus negative position; otherwise, why else would they play that machine right _then_ rather than waiting for it to turn positive like the other informed players? And if they _did_ know the point at which it turns positive and realized that it was still negative but were just playing because they enjoy the game, or couldn't find anything better, or whatever, then why would they leave after they turned it positive? Even if pros then sat down to play, it would still be fun, still be the better play in the place, but instead of playing a negative game, they would then be playing a positive game. If it were a matter of bankroll, why would a knowledgeable player blow most of their bankroll trying to turn a negative game into a positive game, risking that they would then run out of money after it turned positive? So I must really assume that the folks driving up the meter -- or whatever it's called on "bonusing" slots -- don't really understand the game or the math that would help them. Now, when we're dealing with "Mr. Clueless" -- especially if s/he is the typical player who might visit the casinos once a month or even less -- I'd bet that they are selecting their games based a lot on glitz (lights, bells and whistles), motiff (e.g., they're big Elvis fans), hunches, and whatever else they perceive to be fun. I would suspect that they would always be hopeful of hitting that elusive jackpot (I presume that's the metered-feature of a bonusing machine), but chalk their constant losses up to just bad luck rather than pros draining the pot; like myself ("King Clueless"), I seriously doubt that they would even realize that there is even such a thing as a 'slot pro'. But despite their constant losses on those machines, many of those players are the same ones who play the lotteries, which we know has a pathetic return of something like only 50% (and even that isn't true because it's paramutual plus the jackpot is paid in yearly increments, i.e., they're paying you interest on what they should have given you). This has been interesting. Thanks.
Cheers.
Bill Velek
Harry Porter wrote:
>
> It wasn't the prettiest of pictures and ultimately some casual
players
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:
> start to avoid the machines, sensing that they didn't have a
> reasonable shot at the bonus.
-------------------------
The machines were just plain trouble for the casino. I recall in the
mid to late ninties reading about and searching for these machines
on the strip. My wife and I found a bank of Cherry Pie machines at
the Stardust. They were 3/4 of the way to the bonus and we were
playing them along with some other patrons. Behind us and to the
side were two people that looked like they'd slept in the street.
When someone left a machine that had the cherry pies almost filled,
they'd barge in, once pushing another patron aside. I could see
complaints to the casino staff coming for this rough treatment.
As to why the occassional player would leave this machine? Cuz they
had no clue as to what they were doing. Yesterday I was playing a
multi-game, multi-denomination game and decided to try a bit of 9/7
Triple Double Bonus. When the screen came up, there sat AAAAJ all
held and left on the screen. Who in their right mind would hold the
Jack in that game? After all, four aces pays 800 units and four aces
with a 2, 3, or 4 pays 4,000. There's plenty of people out there
that have no clue what they are doing. No different than the lady
last week holding a lone high card in Deuces Wild or deuce deuce
high card. Makes no sense but it's how 90% of the gamblers play.
Thanks, Harry. That makes sense, but then again it raises a question.<snip>
Even if pros then sat down to play, it would still be fun, still be the better play in the place, but instead of playing a negative game, they would then be playing a positive game.
Some pros would get downright obnoxious. I heard of some who would sit right next to the player of the desired machine and STARE at them until the got creeped out and left. Other rumored techniques involved cigar smoke, lewd behavior, insane babble ...whatever it took. It got ugly.
John
So we think only the slot players would stoop to such behavior? Do
you remember the linked flush attack VP games? I saw some ugly
situations at those banks. People would stand by the machines until
the FA hit, and then play like a mad man. Or some would just hog a
machine, not play at all, or play one quarter every few minutes until
the attack mode. They still have a bank of those at the Riverside in
Laughlin. I played them earlier this month, and with the 3's and 8's
double pay for August, it is a great play. I hate to say it, but some
of the behavior has not changed.
Some pros would get downright obnoxious. I heard of some who would
sit
right next to the player of the desired machine and STARE at them
until
the got creeped out and left. Other rumored techniques involved
cigar
smoke, lewd behavior, insane babble ...whatever it took. It got
ugly.