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The Fremont Street Commando does Wendover

Greetings from West Wendover, Nevada.. Wendover is on the Utah side.
This is a poker stop for me. My laptop, along with the rollaway is in
storage in Las Vegas. I'm traveling with a small backback and a few
changes of clothes, haven't bought the sleeping bag yet. I'm making this
post from the hotel lobby of the Peppermill. Free internet access for hotels
guests. It's the only internet access in town other than the library which is
a nightmare - Dial-up, runs slow, waiting list.

Video Poker has seen better days here. Nevertheless, I will give you the
lowdown.

There are 5 casino/hotels here. The Peppermill properties, Montego Bay,
Rainbow, and Peppermill and the Wendover Nugget and Red Garter.

Peppermill properties first. The best games are NSUD and 9/6 Jacks,
They are everywhere, 5/25/50/1/5. All three properties are copies of
Peppermill/Reno. Neon Glitz. The rooms are just a cut below Peppermill
Reno, but large with queen or king beds, coffee maker, 20 channels on the
TV, in room movies. I always catch up with the movies here. Have
watched Cinderella Man, Good Night and Good Luck, and Walk the Line so
far. Have to see Glory Road and Syriana sometime this week. You'll wake
up every morning to find the Salt Lake Tribune slipped under your door.

Wendover is 135 miles from Salt Lake City. The clientele is mostly Salt
Lakers who take day trips on Donna's Tours or Lebus. Cost is $14 with $7
cashback and free buffet. You can change your day of return for $10. The
highway traffic also adds to their clientele. Wendover sits right on I-80.
Then there is Millionaire Express (1-866-359-9363). They bring people in
from 17 different states in the West, Northwest, Southwest and Midwest.
The packages are for roundtrip air travel and 3 night hotel stay and run
from $99 to $199 depending on the distance and include all taxes and
fees.

The card is worth .5% comp which can be used for rooms, meals and
future flights on Millionaire Express - user friendly self comp. Just go eat
and hand them your card. Each property has a buffet (slightly above
average and priced $9 to $15 depending on whetrher it's breakfast, lunch
or dinner). Each property has a restaurant (probably on par with Denny's
but you can get a good meal for $10 to $12. Then there is the Steakhouse
at the Rainbow (well worth the effort). Plus .25% Passport Points which
can be used in the gift shop for cigarettes, top shelf booze and clothing
(not a very big selection, but Tommy Bahama). One card for all three
properties. It doesn't matter which casino you play, you can spend the
comp in the others. Their mailers are pretty good too. I came through
because they sent me 2 nights Jacuzzi suite and $100 bounceback. But
I'm gonna stay for awhile because they still play donkey poker here.

The Wendover Nugget probably has the best theoretical game here, 12/8
Shockwave. I can't remember the numbers but I think it's right at 100%.
Maybe someone else can post it along with it's gillion digit variance. They
also have 9/6 Jacks prog in dollars, .5% meter. and the sports bar has
multi-game prog in quarters with 9./6 jacks being the best game - .4%
meter. This is where I give VP action when I catch a decent number. The
card is .5% comp used for rooms, meals and gift shop. They have some
pretty nice women's clothing here. The mailers are good too. The casino
has no ambience but I like the rooms here. They are huge with King beds,
60 channels, huge bathroom and balconies. I stay when I have built up
comp from the progressives.

The Red Garter (better known as the Red Gutter by the locals) is a video
poker wasteland with no card. The VPFree database listing FPDW here is
incorrect. They haven't been there for years. The best game is 9/6 in
dollars. The only saving grace of the Gutter is the $22 midweek room
rate. It might not be your cup of tea but is easily tolerable for a guy who
has slept under a few bridges in his life.

So, until next time, good night, and good luck.

Mickey Crimm srote:

Greetings from West Wendover, Nevada.. Wendover is on the

Utah side.<

Mickey, I really appreciate your reports. Wendover sounds like
a fun place.
Good luck and keep us posted
GB

···

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What is "donkey poker"??? Sorry, not familiar w/this one . . . .??? JH

mickeycrimm <mickeycrimm@yahoo.com> wrote: Greetings from West Wendover, Nevada.. .....I'm gonna stay for awhile because they still play donkey poker here.

Jean H--
   
  You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
You're on your own. And you know what you know.
  And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go.... Dr. Suess

···

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K Haka wrote:

What is "donkey poker"??? Sorry, not familiar w/this one . . .
.??? JH

That one sent me "googling", Jean:
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=14697

- H.

What is "donkey poker"??? Sorry, not familiar w/this

one . . . .??? JH

mickeycrimm <mickeycrimm@...> wrote: Greetings from West Wendover,

Nevada.. .....I'm gonna stay for awhile because they still play
donkey poker here.

Sorry for the confusion, folks. In poker parlance a bad poker player
is said to be a "donkey." There are lots and lots of bad poker
players in Wendover. The game here is $2 to $5 Holdem with a $50
kill. A $50 pot sends the game to $5/$10 holdem. This structure
screams out tight, tight, tight. The game here goes back and forth
between passive and aggressive but is always loose. Once the game
goes to 5/10 it's very hard for it to go back to 2/5 because the pots
are almost always $50, plus. There are about 5 games played at 5/10
for every game at 2/5. So, for all intents and purposes, I'm sitting
in a 5/10 game. The blinds in a normal 5/10 game are $2 and $5, or
an average of 70 cents per hand. The blinds in this game I'm playing
in Wendover are $1 and $2, or an average of 30 cents per hand. This
is a huge up front savings. The main trick to this game is to lay
off the suited connecters like AT, KJ, KT, QJ, QT, JT from up front,
only playing them in the back. When you win a $50 or more pot you
are being charged $3 rake, $1 bad beat rake, dealer tip, and must
post a $5 blind bet. That makes those connectors marginal at best.
You want to defend that blind bet from around back, not up front.
But you've still got to play those big pairs and big aces up front.

Also, the bad beat is much easier to hit here than anywhere else.
Aces full of anything cracked by 4K. When you are holding a pocket
pair and 2 Aces come on the flop you can't just throw your hand away
if you are reasonably certain that your opponent is holding a big
Ace. If another Ace comes off on the turn or river you've got the
bad beat. There is about a 1 in 23 chance of this happening. Your
cost to see the turn and river are either $10 or $15 or maybe you
will get a free card or two. But assuming the cost is $15 and the
bad beat is at $4000, with you getting half if you hit it, that's a
133 to one payoff. You also have equity in putting a bad beat on the
opponent holding the big Ace if you snag one of your two outs to make
the underfull. If the pot stays multi-way after the 2 Ace flop, it's
a judgement call as to whether the Ace draw is dead or other
opponents are holding pocket pairs or are just plain donkeys.

In the bad beat both players must use both hole cards. Donkeys have
messed up the bad beat here many times. This is how it can happen.
One player is holding AK, another holding pocket Tens, the Donkey is
holding KJ. The flop is A A 3. An Ace comes off on the turn and a
Jack on the river. The donkey now has the second best hand but does
not qualify for the bad beat because he is using only one card out of
his hand. The pocket tens are now the third best hand and do not
qualify for the bad beat. If the donkey would have thrown his hand
away, like he was supposed to do, the bad beat would have occurred.

There are some things I forgot to mention in my prior post on
Wendover: Shuttles run every few minutes between the Peppermill
properties. A 1000 seat concert hall is under construction, to be
completed in June. They are planning for all big name entertainers.
The first is supposed to be Willie Nelson (if he's still living).
Beside using the .5% comp for rooms, meals, and future flights on
Milliuonaire Express, you can also use it at the Espresso shops, Spa
and for Golf.

So, until next time, good night, and good luck.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, K Haka <kjhaka@...> wrote:

Thanks HP--I enjoyed learning about the other "new"
  poker terms, too! Thot I'd heard good ole Mike S
  use most of them . . . but hey! I'm learning here!
  Thanks again! JH

  K Haka wrote:

What is "donkey poker"??? Sorry, not familiar w/this one . . .
.??? JH

That one sent me "googling", Jean:
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=14697

- H.

Jean H--
   
  You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
You're on your own. And you know what you know.
  And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go.... Dr. Suess

···

Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:

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Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As a poker newb, I've found the term a bit overused. I think it's one of
those code words that often frantically attempts to indicate the user is
part of the "club" and inhibits truly creative descriptions of awful play
and players. Interesting about that kill. I'm guessing a kill that remains
in effect during the majority of games played rewards tight play even more
than usual. Are kills that get activated by pot size common?

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
mickeycrimm
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 9:38 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: The Fremont Street Commando does Wendover

Sorry for the confusion, folks. In poker parlance a bad poker player
is said to be a "donkey." There are lots and lots of bad poker
players in Wendover. The game here is $2 to $5 Holdem with a $50
kill. A $50 pot sends the game to $5/$10 holdem. This structure
screams out tight, tight, tight. The game here goes back and forth
between passive and aggressive but is always loose. Once the game
goes to 5/10 it's very hard for it to go back to 2/5 because the pots
are almost always $50, plus. There are about 5 games played at 5/10
for every game at 2/5. So, for all intents and purposes, I'm sitting
in a 5/10 game. The blinds in a normal 5/10 game are $2 and $5, or
an average of 70 cents per hand. The blinds in this game I'm playing
in Wendover are $1 and $2, or an average of 30 cents per hand. This
is a huge up front savings. The main trick to this game is to lay
off the suited connecters like AT, KJ, KT, QJ, QT, JT from up front,
only playing them in the back. When you win a $50 or more pot you
are being charged $3 rake, $1 bad beat rake, dealer tip, and must
post a $5 blind bet. That makes those connectors marginal at best.
You want to defend that blind bet from around back, not up front.
But you've still got to play those big pairs and big aces up front.

Also, the bad beat is much easier to hit here than anywhere else.
Aces full of anything cracked by 4K. When you are holding a pocket
pair and 2 Aces come on the flop you can't just throw your hand away
if you are reasonably certain that your opponent is holding a big
Ace. If another Ace comes off on the turn or river you've got the
bad beat. There is about a 1 in 23 chance of this happening. Your
cost to see the turn and river are either $10 or $15 or maybe you
will get a free card or two. But assuming the cost is $15 and the
bad beat is at $4000, with you getting half if you hit it, that's a
133 to one payoff. You also have equity in putting a bad beat on the
opponent holding the big Ace if you snag one of your two outs to make
the underfull. If the pot stays multi-way after the 2 Ace flop, it's
a judgement call as to whether the Ace draw is dead or other
opponents are holding pocket pairs or are just plain donkeys.

In the bad beat both players must use both hole cards. Donkeys have
messed up the bad beat here many times. This is how it can happen.
One player is holding AK, another holding pocket Tens, the Donkey is
holding KJ. The flop is A A 3. An Ace comes off on the turn and a
Jack on the river. The donkey now has the second best hand but does
not qualify for the bad beat because he is using only one card out of
his hand. The pocket tens are now the third best hand and do not
qualify for the bad beat. If the donkey would have thrown his hand
away, like he was supposed to do, the bad beat would have occurred.

There are some things I forgot to mention in my prior post on
Wendover: Shuttles run every few minutes between the Peppermill
properties. A 1000 seat concert hall is under construction, to be
completed in June. They are planning for all big name entertainers.
The first is supposed to be Willie Nelson (if he's still living).
Beside using the .5% comp for rooms, meals, and future flights on
Milliuonaire Express, you can also use it at the Espresso shops, Spa
and for Golf.

So, until next time, good night, and good luck.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

As a poker newb, I've found the term a bit overused. I think it's one of
those code words that often frantically attempts to indicate the user is
part of the "club" and inhibits truly creative descriptions of awful play
and players. Interesting about that kill. I'm guessing a kill that remains
in effect during the majority of games played rewards tight play even

more

than usual. Are kills that get activated by pot size common?

Chandler

They are in Omaha Hi-Lo but not Holdem. The game was invented by one
of the dealers here about 5 years ago. It's the only one I know of
anywhere that is activated by pot size. Evidence of the really bad play here
is the average number of players seeing the flop, about 6.5. Many of the
pots are contested 7 and 8 way before the flop.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@...> wrote:

I think I can hear a player whining that his set got beat by a runner runner
draw all the way in Chicago. It could get frustrating, but the game sounds
fun and profitable. Incidentally, congratulations on the new Frugal Fame;-)

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
mickeycrimm
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:22 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: The Fremont Street Commando does Wendover

They are in Omaha Hi-Lo but not Holdem. The game was invented by one
of the dealers here about 5 years ago. It's the only one I know of
anywhere that is activated by pot size. Evidence of the really bad play
here
is the average number of players seeing the flop, about 6.5. Many of the
pots are contested 7 and 8 way before the flop.

Thanks, Chandler, and yes there are plenty of tough beats here. I'll tell
you about one in particular. I was under the gun in a Kill pot and picked
up pocket Aces. I make it ten to go and get 8, that's right, eight callers.
I think to myself "I'm through betting this hand." But the flop comes A-8-
3 rainbow. I think to myself "That's just about the only flop besides
quads I would bet." I bet and get 6, that's right, six callers. An offsuit 6
comes off on the turn. No straight possible yet and no flush will be
possible. I bet again and get 6, that's right, six callers. A 4 comes off
on the river. I check, the donkey bets (I know the term is overused but I
don't care) and I overcall 2 other players. He shows 7-5 offsuit and
takes down a massive pot. My comment was "Nice hand sir, very well
played." Don't want to PO the donkeys or wisen them up. Top
pair/kicker get you killed in this game. The trick is to play cards in
position that can build big hands and hope you get there on the river.
Kind of like Omaha Hi-Lo. That's one of the names I call the game
here, "2 card omaha."

On another note, I'm feeding the administrator more information on VP
games here as I find them, so he can update the data base, also games
that were listed but a MIA. Good night, and good luck. --- In
vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@...> wrote:

I think I can hear a player whining that his set got beat by a runner

runner

draw all the way in Chicago. It could get frustrating, but the game

sounds

fun and profitable. Incidentally, congratulations on the new Frugal

Fame;-)

Chandler

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]

On Behalf Of

mickeycrimm
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:22 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: The Fremont Street Commando does Wendover

They are in Omaha Hi-Lo but not Holdem. The game was invented

by one

of the dealers here about 5 years ago. It's the only one I know of
anywhere that is activated by pot size. Evidence of the really bad play
here
is the average number of players seeing the flop, about 6.5. Many of

the

···

-----Original Message-----
pots are contested 7 and 8 way before the flop.

Really? I've played in a variety of kill pot games with many different structures more than a decade ago, so it seems unlikely that it was so recently invented. In Omaha 8-or-better, the kill is usually triggered by scooping a pot of a minimum size. In Hold'em or other high only games, the kill is usually triggered by having the same player win two or more pots in a row, but I've seen several places where the kill was triggered solely by pot size too. And I've seen other structures for kill pot games as well.

Games with kill pots suggest tighter than normal play during "normal" pots as winning a sufficiently large pot now means you post a kill, but looser than normal play during the "kill" pots (if someone other than one of the blinds has the kill) because of the extra blind that gets posted for the kill pot. If you have to post a kill over your own blind, then you get an effective discount on the kill. Looser than normal play during kill pots is even more correct if the game is a half or 1/3 kill game, as the number of small bets being posted in blinds during a kill pot is even larger, and the kill "penalty" is proportionally smaller. Kill pots hit the rake cap sooner, too, so the effective rake percentage is reduced in kill pots as well.

Omaha 8-or-better hands are also generally closer to median in value than Hold'em hands are, so the penalty of posting a kill is greatly lessened in an Omaha 8-or-better game.

···

At 12:22 PM 4/25/2006, mickeycrimm wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@...> wrote:
> Are kills that get activated by pot size common?

They are in Omaha Hi-Lo but not Holdem. The game was invented by one
of the dealers here about 5 years ago. It's the only one I know of
anywhere that is activated by pot size. Evidence of the really bad play here
is the average number of players seeing the flop, about 6.5. Many of the
pots are contested 7 and 8 way before the flop.

--
Stephen H. Landrum <slandrum@fairgame.com>

Sorry for the confusion. The dealer here, Dan, did not invent kill pots.
He invented the particular structure played here, $2 to $5 with a $50 kill
to $5 and $10. It's still the only holdem game I know of where the kill
is activated by pot size, but they may do it somhere else and I just don't
know about it.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen H. Landrum"
<slandrum@...> wrote:

>--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@>

wrote:

> > Are kills that get activated by pot size common?
>
>They are in Omaha Hi-Lo but not Holdem. The game was invented

by one

>of the dealers here about 5 years ago. It's the only one I know of
>anywhere that is activated by pot size. Evidence of the really bad

play here

>is the average number of players seeing the flop, about 6.5. Many

of the

···

At 12:22 PM 4/25/2006, mickeycrimm wrote:
>pots are contested 7 and 8 way before the flop.

Really? I've played in a variety of kill pot games with many
different structures more than a decade ago, so it seems unlikely
that it was so recently invented. In Omaha 8-or-better, the kill is
usually triggered by scooping a pot of a minimum size. In Hold'em or
other high only games, the kill is usually triggered by having the
same player win two or more pots in a row, but I've seen several
places where the kill was triggered solely by pot size too. And I've
seen other structures for kill pot games as well.

Games with kill pots suggest tighter than normal play during "normal"
pots as winning a sufficiently large pot now means you post a kill,
but looser than normal play during the "kill" pots (if someone other
than one of the blinds has the kill) because of the extra blind that
gets posted for the kill pot. If you have to post a kill over your
own blind, then you get an effective discount on the kill. Looser
than normal play during kill pots is even more correct if the game is
a half or 1/3 kill game, as the number of small bets being posted in
blinds during a kill pot is even larger, and the kill "penalty" is
proportionally smaller. Kill pots hit the rake cap sooner, too, so
the effective rake percentage is reduced in kill pots as well.

Omaha 8-or-better hands are also generally closer to median in value
than Hold'em hands are, so the penalty of posting a kill is greatly
lessened in an Omaha 8-or-better game.

--
Stephen H. Landrum <slandrum@...>

No worries. I have understood for a very long time that my influence on the
American lexicon would be limited to what came out of my mouth.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
mickeycrimm
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:15 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: The Fremont Street Commando does Wendover

I check, the donkey bets (I know the term is overused but I
don't care) and I overcall 2 other players.