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The Five Most Difficult VP Games To Master

#1

Having heard this talk about how hard could OEJ possibly be,
compliments of yours truly (yeah, my name ain't Skip or Jean or Bob,
so how could I possibly know what I'm talking about?), a quick
tutorial on the Final Jeopardy of all VP games.

The 5 Toughest are all joker games. That's because there are few
redraws in joker games, as it is worth more usually to hold the least
offensive card than to redraw. Even then, there are anomalies in
figuring out which single card to hold is the best, but these errors,
at dollars, are usually a quarter penny or less. There are also 3 card
straight holds, 2 card straight flush holds and single card 10 holds
to ponder.

1) OEJ (IGT, 100.28, 99.98, progressives). This is not a double joker
game, but two single, quasi-joker (two of the joker royals are
actually top line royal flushes) strategies wrapped up into one. I've
been doing this for a while, so you need to trust me when I tell you
it's really hard. Contrary to Jean Scott's 2002 article in LVA on the
game, it only marginally resembles Double Joker (originally, that
what's I thought, too, BTW).

BTW, I have lobbied several Vegas casinos for the 100.28 version. I
guaranteee they'll hold 3% at dollars. All they see is the potential
payout, which IMHO is a blessing because they can trumpet "100.3%
payout" over the machine. God would have trouble playing this game to
100.1%. There are several, and it's a growing list, of 99.98 games
throughout NV. Maybe the slop ops suits will understand better after
reading this.

2) Double Joker (Sigma, 100.34, IGT, 99.02). The Sigma version is 9
coins for the full house, the IGT 8 coins, but 1000 coins for the RF.
The Sigma version was the previous complexity champ, and the IGT
version is really only playable as a progressive (for dollars, good
meter, Bally's AC). The Sigma was taken out at Foxwoods last year. The
usual DJW games, there are more redraws. In this version, if your last
option is to hold a single 5-9 with little interference, the proper
play will usually be to do so. Because the flush pays 6 coins and the
straight pays 5, there are more two card SF holds, and more three gap
with the joker SF holds.

3) AC Joker (IGT, Sigma, Bally's, played as progressive, 97.19 at
reset). This is the one where the top line is 5K. Again, highly
penalty card specific, and very high variance. You're gunning for the
top line or for a straight flush, which puts the variance off the
chart. As one top pro I know and respect says, "no one plays it
perfectly". The good news is that since the meter on these machines is
usually 1% and most pros will come in with no less than 2.5-3% the
best of it, speed becomes a bigger concern than accuracy. Most pros
expect to give up as much as a quarter percent in exchange for putting
out more hands per hour. When chasing a progressive in a crowded bank,
speed is imperative.

4) Two Pair Joker, 5000 coin royal (IGT, 99.92). Similar comments to
(2) and (3), with a little more variance than the 99.02 IGT DJW.
Unlike the other games, there are very few redraws, about one every
1000 hands.

5) Double Joker (Sigma, IGT, 99.97). This is the version where the
quads pay 9 coins, the full house pays 5. In most Joker games, the
non-joker hand play is tricky, and the joker hand play is
straightforward. In this game, it's the other way around. The
non-joker strategy is quite easy. The single joker strategy is
actually difficult, and there are many 7-10 cent (at dollars) errors.

In a 1-10 scale, (1) and (2) are clear 10s. (3) and (4) are 9s,
although (4) is probably a 9-. (5) is an 8. After those five, I'd
probably rank AA and 10/7 (which are 7s, and virtually identical in
complexity) next. Many Vegas pros will tell you that AA is more
dificult than 10/7. That's because they hardly play it. There are a
couple more wrinkles in AA than in 10/7 and AA is, as a class of
games, stands alone, where 10/7 shares qualities with DDB, SDB, SAB,
BDLX, et al), which would make 10/7 easier to learn for a player
already knowing the strategy to one other other listed games. But side
by side, with nothing more, they're really about the same.

#2

Stop it, you're scaring me;-) DB (a 7 on the P Scale) is about as tough a
game as this tourist wants to mess with.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: paladin415x [mailto:paladin4…@…com]
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:03 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] The Five Most Difficult VP Games To Master

Having heard this talk about how hard could OEJ possibly be,
compliments of yours truly (yeah, my name ain't Skip or Jean or Bob,
so how could I possibly know what I'm talking about?), a quick
tutorial on the Final Jeopardy of all VP games.

The 5 Toughest are all joker games. That's because there are few
redraws in joker games, as it is worth more usually to hold the least
offensive card than to redraw. Even then, there are anomalies in
figuring out which single card to hold is the best, but these errors,
at dollars, are usually a quarter penny or less. There are also 3 card
straight holds, 2 card straight flush holds and single card 10 holds
to ponder.

1) OEJ (IGT, 100.28, 99.98, progressives). This is not a double joker
game, but two single, quasi-joker (two of the joker royals are
actually top line royal flushes) strategies wrapped up into one. I've
been doing this for a while, so you need to trust me when I tell you
it's really hard. Contrary to Jean Scott's 2002 article in LVA on the
game, it only marginally resembles Double Joker (originally, that
what's I thought, too, BTW).

BTW, I have lobbied several Vegas casinos for the 100.28 version. I
guaranteee they'll hold 3% at dollars. All they see is the potential
payout, which IMHO is a blessing because they can trumpet "100.3%
payout" over the machine. God would have trouble playing this game to
100.1%. There are several, and it's a growing list, of 99.98 games
throughout NV. Maybe the slop ops suits will understand better after
reading this.

2) Double Joker (Sigma, 100.34, IGT, 99.02). The Sigma version is 9
coins for the full house, the IGT 8 coins, but 1000 coins for the RF.
The Sigma version was the previous complexity champ, and the IGT
version is really only playable as a progressive (for dollars, good
meter, Bally's AC). The Sigma was taken out at Foxwoods last year. The
usual DJW games, there are more redraws. In this version, if your last
option is to hold a single 5-9 with little interference, the proper
play will usually be to do so. Because the flush pays 6 coins and the
straight pays 5, there are more two card SF holds, and more three gap
with the joker SF holds.

3) AC Joker (IGT, Sigma, Bally's, played as progressive, 97.19 at
reset). This is the one where the top line is 5K. Again, highly
penalty card specific, and very high variance. You're gunning for the
top line or for a straight flush, which puts the variance off the
chart. As one top pro I know and respect says, "no one plays it
perfectly". The good news is that since the meter on these machines is
usually 1% and most pros will come in with no less than 2.5-3% the
best of it, speed becomes a bigger concern than accuracy. Most pros
expect to give up as much as a quarter percent in exchange for putting
out more hands per hour. When chasing a progressive in a crowded bank,
speed is imperative.

4) Two Pair Joker, 5000 coin royal (IGT, 99.92). Similar comments to
(2) and (3), with a little more variance than the 99.02 IGT DJW.
Unlike the other games, there are very few redraws, about one every
1000 hands.

5) Double Joker (Sigma, IGT, 99.97). This is the version where the
quads pay 9 coins, the full house pays 5. In most Joker games, the
non-joker hand play is tricky, and the joker hand play is
straightforward. In this game, it's the other way around. The
non-joker strategy is quite easy. The single joker strategy is
actually difficult, and there are many 7-10 cent (at dollars) errors.

In a 1-10 scale, (1) and (2) are clear 10s. (3) and (4) are 9s,
although (4) is probably a 9-. (5) is an 8. After those five, I'd
probably rank AA and 10/7 (which are 7s, and virtually identical in
complexity) next. Many Vegas pros will tell you that AA is more
dificult than 10/7. That's because they hardly play it. There are a
couple more wrinkles in AA than in 10/7 and AA is, as a class of
games, stands alone, where 10/7 shares qualities with DDB, SDB, SAB,
BDLX, et al), which would make 10/7 easier to learn for a player
already knowing the strategy to one other other listed games. But side
by side, with nothing more, they're really about the same.

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#3

paladin415x wrote:

Many Vegas pros will tell you that AA is more
dificult than 10/7. That's because they hardly play it. There are a
couple more wrinkles in AA than in 10/7 and AA is, as a class of
games, stands alone, where 10/7 shares qualities with DDB, SDB, SAB,
BDLX, et al), which would make 10/7 easier to learn for a player
already knowing the strategy to one other other listed games. But side
by side, with nothing more, they're really about the same.

Re DB/AA: I imagine if you're comparing "advanced" strategies and
taking into all penalty considerations, I could see deeming the
difficulty level of these two games comparable. But I suggest this
because 10/7 DB involves a much higher frequency of hands where
penalties are a factor.

If you compare basic non-penalty strategies, then I'm hard pressed not
to rate AA as a notch up on the difficulty scale. It seems to me that
there are many more cases in AA where you may be faced with 3 viable
holds to choose from than in DB (say, low pair, 4 card inside
straight, 3 card SF ... with varying number of high cards).

With AA, there's often a lot more to jumble about in your head to
select the correct hold and if you're playing at a pretty good clip
your concentration must be absolute. (I tend to lose a good deal of
my verbal skills immediately following an intense 2 or 3 hour AA
session ;).

Because I eschew all but the most common 3 or 4 penalty situations in
DB and take none into account in playing AA, AA is a much more
strenuous game for me ... and I'm equally skilled in either game. I
simply find that I'm much more vulnerable to costly lapses in
attention when attacking AA than when I'm playing DB.

- Harry

#4

Harry Porter wrote:

Re DB/AA: I imagine if you're comparing "advanced" strategies and
taking into all penalty considerations, I could see deeming the
difficulty level of these two games comparable. But I suggest this
because 10/7 DB involves a much higher frequency of hands where
penalties are a factor.

If you compare basic non-penalty strategies, then I'm hard pressed not
to rate AA as a notch up on the difficulty scale. It seems to me that
there are many more cases in AA where you may be faced with 3 viable
holds to choose from than in DB (say, low pair, 4 card inside
straight, 3 card SF ... with varying number of high cards).

With AA, there's often a lot more to jumble about in your head to
select the correct hold and if you're playing at a pretty good clip
your concentration must be absolute. (I tend to lose a good deal of
my verbal skills immediately following an intense 2 or 3 hour AA
session ;).

Because I eschew all but the most common 3 or 4 penalty situations in
DB and take none into account in playing AA, AA is a much more
strenuous game for me ... and I'm equally skilled in either game. I
simply find that I'm much more vulnerable to costly lapses in
attention when attacking AA than when I'm playing DB.

The February edition of Video Poker Player will feaure a simplified A/A strategy (No Brainers + 21 lines) that has a max expectation of 100.6%.
Skip

#5

Skip Hughes wrote:

The February edition of Video Poker Player will feaure a simplified
A/A strategy (No Brainers + 21 lines) that has a max expectation of
100.6%.

That'll be interesting to check out, Skip.

In truth (conerning AA vs. DB strategy) AA strategy, even in it's most
stringent form, isn't overwhelming. What makes the game particularly
tough is that even for the person who has the strategy nailed, it
requires an extra level of attention so as not to not screw up key holds.

Take the dealt hand: 9d 9h 7d Jh 8h

It's a no-brainer in DB that you hold the pair of nines.
For someone who has a decent grasp of AA strategy, it's also a
no-brainer that you hold the 3-ins SF, 1 hi.

But the evaluation of the AA hand requires fairly careful
consideration and weighing of three possible holds: SF, Str, pair.

If you're playing very deliberatively it's not a problem. But most
players tend to move along at a good clip. If you're really pushing
it (say at 1000+ hph) a hand like the one above can prove troublesome
(i.e. you may not catch that there are 3 strong hold candidates)
unless your attention is riveted to the game.

That's the respect in which I find AA a much more difficult game than
DB. I can relax over my DB play to a much greater extent and
distractions in the immediate area aren't nearly the concern.

- Harry

#6

Good answer, and I agree. I really enjoy AA because of the
challenge. However, I can only play for a couple of hours (with
minimal mistakes) before my brain starts turning to mush. Playing AA
is either increasing my "mental stamina", or, it's causing me
pernamint drain bamage...um...who are you people and what are we
talking about again?

Anyway, to me there's no question AA is harder than 10/7 DB, although
I admit I don't play DB as perfectly because it's not available here
in KC.

carlos

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

That'll be interesting to check out, Skip.

In truth (conerning AA vs. DB strategy) AA strategy, even in it's

most

stringent form, isn't overwhelming. What makes the game

particularly

tough is that even for the person who has the strategy nailed, it
requires an extra level of attention so as not to not screw up key

holds.

Take the dealt hand: 9d 9h 7d Jh 8h

It's a no-brainer in DB that you hold the pair of nines.
For someone who has a decent grasp of AA strategy, it's also a
no-brainer that you hold the 3-ins SF, 1 hi.

But the evaluation of the AA hand requires fairly careful
consideration and weighing of three possible holds: SF, Str, pair.

If you're playing very deliberatively it's not a problem. But most
players tend to move along at a good clip. If you're really pushing
it (say at 1000+ hph) a hand like the one above can prove

troublesome

(i.e. you may not catch that there are 3 strong hold candidates)
unless your attention is riveted to the game.

That's the respect in which I find AA a much more difficult game

than

···

DB. I can relax over my DB play to a much greater extent and
distractions in the immediate area aren't nearly the concern.

- Harry

#7

As in today's LVRJ, The All Vegas Channel (TV35), has management problems and has been delayed or cancelled.

···

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